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1 Cab Solution - Why Not A 15/12/6?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Thumper, Mar 23, 2013.


  1. Thumper

    Thumper

    Mar 22, 2000
    Syracuse Ut
    I've spent alot of time on this forum since December, and in some ways am more confused than ever!

    Some say: 15/6 with 15 sub or second 15/6
    Some say: 12/6 with 12 sub or second 12/6
    Some say: 15/6 with 12/6
    Some say: 12/12/6 or 15/15/6 or 212 or 215 or some derivative (GlassTone, Xsonic)

    Is a 1 Cab Solution under 70 lbs (maybe composite) even feasible?

    After reading many threads, and all the pointy headed controversy which is over my head as I'm not an electrical engineer, I was thinking:

    How about a 15/12/6 in 4 ohms with the lightest possible weight? Say a crossover for the 15 at X, another for the 12 to do the punchy stuff at X, and then of course the 6 at whatever is left. My reasoning because I've read the 3015LF does the deepest lows, and the 3012LF or HO has more pleasing (less nasally mids). Ands as I've stated in other threads, no tweeters needed in my world.

    Then I could have my small/medium venue Markbass rig and a large venue/outdoors rig, and even run both rigs for large events with no PA support using both LMII heads.

    Or must I just resign myself to having the cost and double schlepping of 2 cabs for an ultimate LARGE volume rig? Of course if this is already available, my bad.
     
  2. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Gold Supporting Member

    Aug 25, 2007
    Toronto Ontario Canada
    The 12 would add nothing to the equation. A 15 can easily go high enough for the 6 to take over.
     
  3. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    The cheapest, most portable, loud solution is to build two 12/6s with alpha mid drivers. If you build yourself they'd probably cost around $450 each all total.

    You could build them with lighter woods and get a weight of 30-35LBS. You'd have a 4 ohm load so you could use many of the micro amp offerings.

    Easy to fit two small-ish cabs into a compact car and then just stack them on a handcart.

    You could achieve volumes between a 410 to 610 and perhaps beyond and you'd have good dispersion.

    Having two of the same cab means you can leave one at your rehearsal space etc. And honestly a single 12/6 will do a hell of alot on its own as its volume potential meets a good 310.

    Stack 'em horizontal or vertical for tight stages.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The 12/6 also works great as a stage monitor with one of those "markstands".

    [​IMG]

    That said, there is a HUGE amount of versatility with these 12/6 cabs. They truly are amazing.

    Other than that your best option for a one cab solution which is 4 ohms is the 1212/6. The 15/6 is fantastic also but I like 500w at 8 ohms amp with that one. Other variations are not fEARfuls and are Authorized Builder only.
     
  4. Thumper

    Thumper

    Mar 22, 2000
    Syracuse Ut
    Yes, of course it will but doesn't more speakers equal more volume, especially at 4 ohms?
     
  5. makohund

    makohund

    Dec 12, 2002
    The 3015LF & 3012LF are gonna sound the same. The HO/non-LF are full range, no need for xover or mid (though you can do that and some non-fearful designed cabs do).

    The 3012LF costs the same and weighs almost the same as the 15. I see nothing gained by putting both in the same cab (a little bit of weight for more box), might as well do 2 15s.

    The cab you are describing sounds like a fearless 215 to me. Yes, it can be made pretty light, or even composite. (I think rpsands has one, weighs like 50-something lbs, crazy.)
     
  6. Gab124

    Gab124 The path is greater than the destination

    Dec 30, 2006
    Tulsa
    The correct answer will vary between individuals. It sounds like you have done your homework and know what is working for others and just need to pull the trigger and try something. One persons loud is another's bedroom level. I know where you are though, I have been going between a 15/6 and a 810 and became tired of it and wanted that one cab solution. I recently tried and have settled on the Xsonics 2155cf (2x15 with mid and tweet). It is loud, sounds good to my ear and is very portable. With that said, I will have situations where if the venue is big enough I will be in the PA no doubt, I will never have to carry a huge room or large outdoor situation without that support and that can make a difference in your decision. With that said, time to start tying things out so you can find out what works for you. For what is worth Xsonics has a trial period where you could give their stuff a whirl and return if you don't like it. Give em a call and talk it over. But most of all, good luck in your search, it can be frustrating.
     
  7. Thumper

    Thumper

    Mar 22, 2000
    Syracuse Ut
    Well 50 lbs and one cab would do it. RPsands please PM me with cost info if you are so inclined.
     
  8. makohund

    makohund

    Dec 12, 2002
    And like bassist says, if wanting a fearful, 1212/6 is the single 4ohm cab that can be under 70lbs.

    Yes, it gets loud. Mine regularly dukes it out with two full stacks doing hard rock/metal, and hangs just fine.
     
  9. Thumper

    Thumper

    Mar 22, 2000
    Syracuse Ut
    They are high on my list, I'm just waiting for more reviews/experience.
     
  10. Gab124

    Gab124 The path is greater than the destination

    Dec 30, 2006
    Tulsa
    That is understandable. Great news is there are tons of great options and they are all different flavors of good.

     
  11. mystic38

    mystic38

    Dec 4, 2012
    Mystic CT
    agreed on the 15/12/6/T as having the 12 not adding much...but a 15/8/T wouldn't be a bad idea...
     
  12. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    +1

    It can be frustrating. Best of luck in finding what best works for you.
     
  13. Not when crossed over for 3 way. In your scheme the 15 determines the ultimate volume. It would be same as a 15/6.
     
  14. iualum

    iualum

    Apr 9, 2004
    60453
    Yep. Unquestionably.
     
  15. Dan Knowlton

    Dan Knowlton Sarcasm: Just ONE of the many services I offer! Supporting Member

    Aug 12, 2002
    Palm Coast, FL
    The Accugroove El Whappo is a 15/12/6/tweeter cab and sounds great. I did prefer the Whappo Jr. a bit more and that was a 12/12...cab. I would gladly play either. Great tone and then just slammed.

    Dan K.
     
  16. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    There's also the new Berg CN 212 coming out to add to your list. They are claiming sub 45LBS. Should be a stellar cab.
     
  17. seamonkey

    seamonkey

    Aug 6, 2004

    Grab yourself Winisd or the Eminence Designer

    To really take full advantage of 2x12's, or 2x15's you need to give the drivers enough internal volume to do their work.

    It's referred to as "Hoffman's Iron Law".

    But to tell you the truth, you may like the sound of these cabs. It may be you don't want to most bass of the drivers and are looking for other tonality.

    Look at the reference designs at Eminence. Other driver manufactures will also provide reference designs which show the best use of the drivers in different boxes. And often sellers of drivers own design software and can give you idea of optimal cabinet sizes.

    Go ahead, give the driver manufacturers a call. They want to see that you get the most out of their drivers.

    Using multiway crossovers you have choices
    Sub + Mid - 15,6 - Probably what most people want
    Sub + Mid + HF - doesn't hurt to add high frequency, turn the treble down if you don't need it.
    Sub + Mid bass + Mid - this might be your 15 + 12 + 6
    If you're looking for some tonality with a mid-bass hump, you could maybe achieve it with this design. Get some software and model it. Built, measure, make corrections, repeat. Modeling will keep you from doing costly and time consuming rebuilds. Engineers don't just fiddle all day with prototypes, there is a lot that can be done designing.

    Also keep in mind that a lot can be done with EQ on a well designed cabinet. So an already well engineer 15,6,tweet, like a fEarful can be EQ'd quite a bit for different tonality. Just add more boxes if you want louder. They add together fine with no funny interaction - see above.

    On the other hand, if you purposely build a cab with a big hump or dip, EQ may not help to overcome it if you ever don't want it.
     
  18. iualum

    iualum

    Apr 9, 2004
    60453
    No, not a bad idea at all.

    But, imho, there are drivers that are smaller, lighter, & (usually) higher SPL/higher frequency range/less expensive that can do the same or better job...such as the 6ND410, M5N8-80, & 6MI90. This is likely why 15/6s (rather than 15/8s) are de rigueur.

    http://www.usspeaker.com/eighteensound-6ND410-1.htm

    http://www.usspeaker.com/faital pro m5n8-80-1.htm

    http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma 6MI90-1.htm
     

  19. Hey those are some good lookin' cabs! ;)

    As far as a 4 Ohm cab, that is light and extremely capable I would look at the fEARless 215.

    The xsonic stuff is an interesting design, but it not loaded with LF drivers. The F215 is going to go a lot deeper.
     
  20. Thumper

    Thumper

    Mar 22, 2000
    Syracuse Ut
    Ok DK and BASSIST, I'm trying to narrow down the options ;)

    There is a lot of good input which has prompted me to provide my tone goals.

    I play in a Country band and use either a TI loaded Zon 5/1 or a P5. The songs require a lot of B string use so I need to go low. I personally prefer the Eden XLT tone (emphasis on low mid punch) but our age precludes 68 lb 210 boxes or my 98 lb 410s (both on the market). I don't need or want to pay for a tweeter on a custom build but if there is a commercial cab that meets my needs which includes one that can be turned off that's ok.
     

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