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1000 watt Goliath Senior?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by SHIFTGREEN, Jan 27, 2003.


  1. SHIFTGREEN

    SHIFTGREEN

    Nov 11, 2002
    NC
    hi, i have been posting a lot about the senior recently, but i got to test my brand new senior out with the band tonight. I have a question though, does it really handle 1000watts? i have the workingman4004 head, and at 400 watts those speakers are jumping like crazy and its not even wide open, i dont see how it can handle another 600watts. It also sounds a little distorted if i hit the 'b' string hard , like the speakers are moving too much, and no my amp isnt clipping i have looked thouroghly. I have messed with the eq and everything but it almost sounds like a henry can handle a 'b" better than a senior, is that right? this senior is like twice as powerfull.
    does anyone think my head just isnt giving off the tone that well, the henry is playing through a ampeg b2r, and thats only 350 watts at 4ohms.
    would a sanamp rbi give it a better tone, or some kind of pedal? any help will be great, thanx.
     
  2. Nick man

    Nick man

    Apr 7, 2002
    Tampa Bay
    Chances are it probably is clipping when you hit the low B.

    Also SWR cabs are tunned kinda high and dont have great low end response, so maybe thats a big part of the reason.

    Peace
    Nick
     
  3. fast slapper

    fast slapper

    Dec 11, 2001
    Fresno, CA
    You need a good poweramp. Around 1000 watts. The amp probably can't control the speakers well enough at higher volumes to keep them in the undistorted range. I've experienced this before with my brother's 6x10. When we hooked up a 2000 watt power amp the sound instanly became cleaner, tighter, louder, and punchier. Are you sure you're not clipping the amp? The only indicator on the 4004 is for the preamp only. The is no indicator for poweramp clipping.
     
  4. SHIFTGREEN

    SHIFTGREEN

    Nov 11, 2002
    NC
    hey, thnx for quick reply, but like i said in my last post, it is not clipping, its not even close to clipping, the clip light never flashes, not even for a millisecond, i could go louder just am a little afraid, but still, this is a 1000watt cab versus a 400watt amphead, i should be able to crank it up wide open and it not flinch, but im tellng you, thos drivers are going crazy, i hope thats how all seniors are.
     
  5. SHIFTGREEN

    SHIFTGREEN

    Nov 11, 2002
    NC
    really? i read the manual and it said as long as my clip led isnt flashing i should be able to turn up as loud as i want, the master volume and all. But i dont know. Would any kind of preamp help ? like a sansamp? i cant go big in bucks b/c the senior was expensive.
     
  6. monkfill

    monkfill

    Jan 1, 2003
    Kansas City
    A preamp won't help. You'll still be limited by the 400 watt output of the head. A hotter preamp just means your amp clips sooner.

    Simply put, a 1000+ watt poweramp would more efficiently drive the cabinet.
     
  7. monkfill

    monkfill

    Jan 1, 2003
    Kansas City
    In theory, you could crank the 400 watt amp and it would not destroy the 1000 watt cabinet. Even though it can handle the power on paper, this is no testament to how it will actually sound.
     
  8. boogiebass

    boogiebass

    Aug 16, 2000
    You're trying to drive a limo with a 4 banger engine, my friend. You don't have anything like enough amp for that cab. fast slapper pretty much nailed your problem. Sorry, but you'll never make a Goliath Sr. come alive with that amp.
     
  9. fast slapper

    fast slapper

    Dec 11, 2001
    Fresno, CA
    I know you don't want to spend anymore money, but I know someone around here uses a Carvin DCM1000 poweramp to drive his Senior with very good results. It runs for around $370 new. You could drive it with your current head or even better find a used Sansamp maybe Peavey Max preamp and you'll have a very effective rig.
     
  10. fast slapper

    fast slapper

    Dec 11, 2001
    Fresno, CA

    Believe me, with the master all the way up with the gain set at a reasonable level clipping will most likely happen. And yes, those speakers like to move, nothing is wrong with your Senior.
     
  11. SHIFTGREEN

    SHIFTGREEN

    Nov 11, 2002
    NC
    ok, i guess the best thing i can do is take my cabinet somewhere like GC and hook it up to a 750x or ampeg b4r, i cant afford it but i can see if my cab is really distorting when using my current head.... so, if i cant afford a new head now, but can spend around lets say 200.00. Is there anything i can get that will make it sound better or atleast help out in power. There are so many bass effects and addons there is probably something i can add that will give it better tone and a more clear sound. by the way, I only get the distorted effect when i hit my "b" string, every other strin is clear.
    ltr
     
  12. monkfill

    monkfill

    Jan 1, 2003
    Kansas City
    If you think something is wrong with your cabinet, by all means take it to GC or someplace where you can put a bigger poweramp on it. I would try a bridged SM-900 if they have one, or a 750x. That would give you something reasonably close to the tone of your WM head, but with enough power to efficiently drive the cabinet. That would at least give you the peace of mind of knowing your cabinet is OK.

    The only thing that will give you what you're looking for is more power. You could find a poweramp that could deliver at least 1000 watts, and assuming your WM head has an effects send jack, you can use it as a preamp.


    Concerning the 10" drivers, I don't notice it so much with my Goliath, since I've never pushed it that hard, but I played a Super Redhead once and it looked like the speakers were ready to launch out the front of the cabinet. I would trust the power rating on the Goliath Sr., especially when matching it with an SWR head.
     
  13. SHIFTGREEN

    SHIFTGREEN

    Nov 11, 2002
    NC
    ook that makes sense.. there is a goliath3 4x10 at gc that is hooked up to a sm-500 i think, maybe 900, anyway if i hook my cab up to the same amp, then the speakers shouldnt be moving as much as or sound distorted compared to the goliath3 right? just b/c i have 6 drivers and the goliath has 4, and they are the same PAS drivers.

    So if I get a 750 power amp and send it through my effects send jack, will that add on to my 400 watt workingman adding over 1100 watts? or does it work differently? i dont know much about using 2 poweramps but i wouold like to do that sense i would hate to sell the workingman, i like it, and plus my dad just bought it for me for christmas and it would be just wrong to sell it after 1 month. especially since i already traded the workingman 4x10 + 600.00 for the senior.
     
  14. monkfill

    monkfill

    Jan 1, 2003
    Kansas City
    I don't know if you'd see any noticeable difference in how much the speakers move between the GIII and the G-Sr. I would say that if the Goliath III doesn't distort and the Sr. does distort, your Sr. has problems. I don't think either one will distort with the SM-900. With the limiter properly engaged, an SM-500 shouldn't distort either.

    You will not get 1100 watts. The WM will act as a preamp if you go with a poweramp (which is only a power section) instead of a head (pre+power). A basic poweramp needs a preamp, and your WM can serve as a preamp until you replace it with a dedicated preamp.

    First off, how loud are you playing your WM > G-Sr. to get it to distort? Does your WM have a limiter, and is it properly engaged? The reason I ask is I have a 350x > G-III, and I've pushed it to where the limiter LED is flashing, and I don't hear distortion.
     
  15. SHIFTGREEN

    SHIFTGREEN

    Nov 11, 2002
    NC
    I know how to set teh amp up without it clipping, I have the gain at 9 oclock, it clips at about 10 oclock, i have the mastervolume at 3oclockalmost wide open which is probably at 5oclock. i hate using those kind of terms but maybe you will understand where they are set. Well the led neverflashes, i make sure of that, the green limiter never flashes, i can go louder... The speakers only sound distorted when i hit the 'b' string from the 7th fret to the 14th hard and when i have it really loud, but still, thats not 1000watts loud .. I also dont know what exactly a distorted speaker sounds like so distortion to me might be clear to you.. but i can say it has a different sound, its not a clear crisp tone as compared to another string or fret. The senior is brand new so i cant see it being the cabinet, plus i would be pissed b/c i dont feel like having to ship it off and all that crap. I hope its just the amphead not having the power but i tell you, it gets loud, and my amphead is not maxed, so it should sound fine. i dont know. it might just be me. tomorrow im going to compare it to my freinds ampeg b2r, but thats only 350 watts, but thats what he uses his Henry with and i never noticed any kind of distorion when playing it.
     
  16. jerry

    jerry Doesn't know BDO Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 13, 1999
    Hawaii
    I have a BergieHT112 and when I tried powering it with my old SM400, the speaker was dancing all over the place........but when I tried it with one half of my QSC2402 at 400+ watts the speaker sprung to life and hardly moved. I know this has a lot to do with the damping factor of the QSC, but none of my cabinets come alive without the juice they demand.......I really think you need a lot more power......look on the used market for a Carvin or Mackie, and use your head as a preamp IMHO;)
     
  17. monkfill

    monkfill

    Jan 1, 2003
    Kansas City
    If its only the B string from the 7th to the 14th fret, I don't think its your rig. That's about the last place your going to get a clear crisp note, especially when played hard. If it was distortion, you'd probably hear it playing those same notes on the E string. Maybe its some sort of fret buzz that's only coming through now because of the clarity and cleanliness of the SWR sound.


    If your gain is clipping at 10, it sounds like your input signal is pretty hot. I bet you have the bass knob on your bass cranked, or you have the bass end of your EQ up pretty high.

    Is your limiter adjustable? For the purposes of the test, make sure you're getting the maximum amount of limiting. In theory, and in my own experience, if the limiter LED is coming on, you still will not get distortion. The purpose of the limiter is to prevent distortion. Now, if the limiter were disengaged, the LED would not light up and you would distort when you push the amp.
     
  18. SHIFTGREEN

    SHIFTGREEN

    Nov 11, 2002
    NC
    ok ok, this i hope will be my last response, well your right, my bass is a ltd 5 string with a preamp. i have both volume controls up all the way, and my bass knob on my bass guitar is up all the way, i dont know what the setting should be, my workingman 4004 has limiter but its not disabled, my eq has bass all the way up, that may be a problem, but thats only at 80hz, my senior rolls off at 55 i think, however i have an aural enhancer turned up to about 75% so i am going to mess around with my EQ and see what happens.
     
  19. monkfill

    monkfill

    Jan 1, 2003
    Kansas City
    When I first got my 350x, I plugged in my Flea bass, cranked the bass and treble on the bass, cranked the bass on the head and set the aural enhancer to around 4:00. Sounds good by itself at low volumes, but it starts clipping pretty fast as you start to push it.

    When I got with the band, I tried the suggested setting in the manual for rock and set the treble on the Flea to flat and the bass to just past the midpoint. I instantly cut through much better, had more headroom, and still had a pretty good amount of low end presence in my sound. This sounds kind of thin at lower volumes, but the sound opens up as you increase the volume. Back off the AE and the bass as you go up in volume, and conversely, you can boost the AE and the bass as you come down in volume.

    The enhancer cuts the midrange around 200 Hz as you turn it past 2:00. These are the frequencies that cut through the mix. As soon as you back off the enhancer, you'll find that you can turn down your volume.
     
  20. SRSiegel

    SRSiegel Guest

    Sep 17, 2001
    Ann Arbor, Michigan
    theres part of your problem my friend. thats probably something in the range of 20-25 more dB of boost on the bass end, not to mention an active preamp on your bass. This will (if not clip) push your preamp section very hard. Just for reference I generally run the eq section on my amp head flat, and just use the eq on my basses. Perhaps you're boosting the bass way up becuase you want to hear more of it, which is hard becuase the gol. sen. drops out at somewhere around 55Hz like you mentioned. This prevents you from hearing the fundamental frequencies unless you boost the bass like mad. well your bass knobs on the bass and on the head are a wide frequency range. meaning that they dont boost a single frequency, but a wider band centered at a specefic frequency. so you are probably getting some strange peaks right around positions 7-14 on your B string because of this. (these notes are probably already clearly audible on the gol. sen, and then the wide band bass boost causes them to become too loud, and hence overdrive the amp)

    Part one of your remedy should be to back off the bass knob. if you have a graphic eq, just use that. the WM head just doesnt have the power needed to provide a 20 dB boost in gain on the bass end of the frequency spectrum.

    Part two would be to save some money up and buy a bigger poweramp as mentioned above. You might even want to consider trying to trade up your WM head + some cash for a big poweramp and a preamp, or a bigger head like the B4. You could go look at places like Music Go Round that specialize in used gear. Best of luck to ye.