10s fast 15's slow

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by K Dubbs, Aug 21, 2002.

  1. K Dubbs

    K Dubbs Just graduated from OSU, Go Bucks!

    Mar 16, 2002
    Toledo, Ohio
    What makes a 10 "faster" than a 15? If a ten and a 15 both have the same rated spl levels and same frequency ranges, theoretically, what would make the 15 sound "slower" than the 10? Is "faster" and "slower" a personal qualia thing, a subjective sound opinion, or do the terms apply to something in the figures, like delay or shape of a waveform? What exactly is the definition of punchy as well? What keeps a 15 or an 18 from being "punchy"? Or does "slam" seem like a better qualia word for those sizes of speakers? Just tryin to learn some things.
  2. PICK


    Jan 27, 2002
    Sydney, Australia
    It basically come down to the size and weight of the speaker. I think that quality might have something to do with it to. A good quality 15 would probably sound "faster" than a crappy 10. But a good quality 10 will always sound faster than a good quality 15 because the speaker is smaller and weighs less so it doesnt take as long to get back to its original position. This is basically the reason that you dont really see bass speakers bigger than an 18.
  3. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    Because of the lower mass of the moving part (cone) of a ten-inch speaker, it will respond more quickly to an input voltage than a heavier fifteen.
  4. PICK


    Jan 27, 2002
    Sydney, Australia
    Damn, you said it in half the space i did!!!!!
  5. if you want a good mixture of the 10's tightness and the 15's lows.. try adding a 2x12" to your 4x10" instead of an 1x15" :) superior lower mids and lows, while still keeping the tightness
  6. TRU


    Apr 12, 2002
    Northern Europe
    The velocity of a speaker is related to the frequency responce. Higher frequency = faster cone movement. So if you have two speakers, one 10" and one 15" with the same frequency responce, they are equally fast.

    Then again, I may be misunderstood and this is not what you are talking about.

    I think what most people think of a "fast" speaker is one with minimal group delay, so that the speaker won't wobble around.

    Punchiness is a product of boosted upper bass/lower mids, methinks.
  7. Matthias


    May 30, 2000
    Vienna, Austria
    These are good points I think.
    I used to believe that different cone mass causes faster or slower response although I always doubted that one can actually hear this difference.
    I still believe that this can play a role theoretically, but practically frequency response is more important I guess.
    10's usually produce more upper lows and mids (or at least less lows) than 15's and thus sound more aggressive, punchier, faster - however you call it.

    BTW 15" speakers are heavier, yes, but they also have stronger magnets. A Bentley is also heavier than a Volkswagen but still has better acceleration.

    Bottom line: I *think* it's more a question of how we percieve tonal differencies than the fact that we hear the 15" driver moving slower.
    But as I'm no expert, I might be wrong here.
    But one thing is for sure: Whatever is the physical reason - larger speakers sound slower than smaller ones (anything else being equal)

  8. Only if the Bl factor is the same for both drivers.

    As it turns out, the smaller 8" and 10" drivers have a higher Bl:Mms ratio than do the 15" drivers. This ratio is the motor strength (Bl) to cone mass (Mms).

    The best ratios of the 15" drivers are the JBL E-145 series. No big surprise here at all... However, all the Eminence 12" drivers have higher Bl to Mms than the E-145, and JBL again leads the pack in the 10" catagory. Note the JBL E110 is not a bass driver, but it does have the lowest F3 response of the JBL E-series line.

    The Eminence Delta 10 used in the Avatar cabs has 50% higher Bl:Mms than the E-145. The Delta won't move anywhere close to the air volume of the E-145, but it will more accurately follow a sharp waveform.

    Group delay is what is most heard as "muddy" or "slow" bass. Sealed boxes have by far the best group delay characteristics. The worst case is realized at (and below) the tuning frequency of a vented box.