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110 and 112 Cab Choices

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by CH Design, Mar 18, 2008.


  1. CH Design

    CH Design Supporting Member

    Apr 25, 2007
    Ottawa, ON
    I am looking for a little advice on a cab change that I plan on making. I’m currently using a Markbass LMII and an Epifani UL-310 S2. I have a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 on the way. I'm going to A/B the two heads and decide to keep one of them. I would like to get rid of the Epi 310 and replace it with something else. I don't play out so I don't need the volume that the 310 puts out. I would also like to get something as compact as possible so moving it around or storing it isn't an issue.

    Some of the cabs that I have in mind are (in no particular order): Epi UL-110, Epi-112, EBS Neo-110, EA 110 Wizzy, EA VL-110, EA VL-208, Schroeder 1212, and similar

    In terms of tone, I am looking for something that is very versatile (which I think is where the Shuttle is going to help out). I need something that can go from clean and clear to a little gritty. Articulation and dynamics are important too. I want something that responds well at low and high volume levels. I like the idea of having a pair of cabs so they can be stacked so that all the sound isn't being directed at my feet.

    I think any of the cabs in the list above would sound great, but they all have potential "problems". I play 5-string a lot so I'm not sure how the Epi UL-110, EA 110 Wizzy or the EBS Neo-110 would fair in reproducing a solid low B. I have read that the EA VL-110 and VL-208 make a great pair, but they require a lot of power. I don't know if either head would have enough juice to drive both. The Schroeder 1212 would be about as big a cab as I would want to go. Again, I don't know how this cab (rated at 1000 W) would sound being driven with a lot less power. And comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
     
  2. Lot's of choices!

    If you basically like the tone of your 310UL and just want a smaller footprint, the 112UL would be a good choice, and would be a touch tighter and more mid punchy... nice cab, and a good fit with the MB heads.

    The little EPi110UL is just too compressed sounding for my taste as a standalone cab, but many love the 112UL/110UL stack.

    The Wizzy is cool as long as you don't use a traditional tweeter as a key part of your tone... it's attenuated in the highest treble range.

    The older EA VL's are WAY too dark sounding for my tastes, but they do go deep and are very organic sounding.... they are heavy. While the SPL is low, playing at home solo would not be an issue with these cabs. If you like that sort of deep, organic voicing, the Acme B110 would be a better choice IMO... full, deep, small, fat sounding, and a more even natural top end extension.

    The 1212L is a great cab, but is all about volume and low mid punch... I wouldn't choose that as a small 'in house' solo sort of cab.

    So, for low volume playing solo, IMO if you like a deep, full, fat organic tone, the AcmeB110 or 210 is at the top of the heap tonewise (compared to the other cabs with similar three way designs and a more organic, darker tone... the Accugroove Tri112 and the EA VL line of cabs).

    If you want some sparkle and a little more modern tone, the Epi112UL is hard to beat. You should also consider the new Bergantino AE112.... light, full range but more punchy and 'alive' than the Acme, etc.

    The Wizzy... it's a different thing... and to me it falls in the crack between the fullness of the Acme's and the modern sparkle and definition of the EpiUL or Berg AE.... to me not a very good choice compared to these other cabs.

    At this point, given your tone description, I would probably recommend the Berg AE112 (with the option to add a second one down the road). From my experience with my AE410, they are full range but punchy, and have plenty of sparkle up top, but also a little grind to them in the upper mids that sounds like it would be a positive for you.

    I am not familiar with the Genz, EBS and GK neo 112 cabs at this point.

    IMO and IME.
     
  3. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Just to be clear, are you looking for a one cab or a two cab solution? Or two cabs that work well together, and then the possibility of using one at times?

    Tom.
     
  4. ustabawannab

    ustabawannab Caesar's palace, morning glory, silly human race. Gold Supporting Member

    Mar 10, 2006
    Greenfield, WI.
    1. Two Eden D112XLTs coupled produce a phenominal midrange.
    2. One D112XLT and one D210XST produces a very deep but articulate tone.
    .
     
  5. The Eden112XLT is the most mid voiced cab I think I've ever heard... even more than the smaller Schroe's. If your really want the mid burp, I guess they are a good option, but they are an 'acquited taste' IMO. Once you get to a 210 and 112, you might as well stick with the 310UL:smug:
     
  6. CH Design

    CH Design Supporting Member

    Apr 25, 2007
    Ottawa, ON

    I think I'm leaning towards two cabs that work well together, and then the possibility of using one at times. I like the idea of being able to stack two cabs to get some sound up off the floor and having the ability to have one cab close to me and another one over by someone else if I'm playing with others. However, if there are some single cab solutions that are going to have the tone that I am looking for I might consider getting one now and adding another if required down the road.
     
  7. So is it the size or the tone of the 310UL you don't dig, or the near field monitoring?

    One thing that works very well with the 310UL is to install a set of Nick's removable castors, and remove the rear castors to provide a nice tilt to that cab... really makes a difference when you are standing close, and results in the same sort of vibe as two small cabs stacked when standing close to the speaker to my ear.

    Regarding 112's, I always have a nice spring loaded handle installed on the bottom to act as a tilt back... that works very nicely to still allow some 'floor coupling' that can help the low end response of these small cabs in some situations, but still allowing you to hear the directional mid response of these cabs near field.... pretty cool.

    If you could describe what it is about the tone 310UL that you don't like (if anything) that would help (i.e., is the tweeter too aggressive, is the low end too extended or not extended enough, are the mids too polite, etc., etc.).

    K
     
  8. CH Design

    CH Design Supporting Member

    Apr 25, 2007
    Ottawa, ON
    Really it's the size. I know that sounds a little silly being that it is a pretty small and light cab. Something with a smaller foot print would work better for me. I really like the sound. It's as deep and as full as you could ask for. As you pointed out, the mids are a little "polite". Something with a little more aggressive sounding mids would be nice. I don't really need as much top end as it puts out though. I have the tweeter set at 12:00 (I haven't adjusted it at all) and I find that I have to roll back the treble when I start pushing it, but it sounds fine at low to moderate volume.
     
  9. smogg

    smogg

    Mar 27, 2007
    NPR, Florida
    I'm not crazy, I'm just a little unwell
    IMO/IME 12's are the way to go. Brand wise, it's really up to your personal tastes. I understand how hard it can be to a/b cabs though. I have yet to find a local shop that has Epi, Berg & GB cabs all in stock at one time.
     
  10. IMO and IME the sweet spot for the tweeter with that cab is around 9 o'clock or so... very even and sweet sounding. Noon is a bit much for me, and I like the sizzle.

    Either the Epi112UL or Berg AE112 would seem to fit the bill. Both of these cabs use the same tweeter that is in the 310UL, although the Berg is crossed over lower, so it grinds a touch more than the pure sizzle of the Epi circuit.

    A single 112 will not be even close to the low end and volume of the 310UL (two would be very close) but it would give you that smaller footprint. I really am impressed with the Berg AE line... very punchy compared to the more 'open' voicing of the Epi's... both great.

    I'd keep what you have, put either a tilt back stand or removable castors on it, and turn that tweeter down to around 9 o'clock :D
     
  11. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Well, some combinations that I might suggest would be the following:

    Epifani UL-112/UL-110 - I still love this combo, and yes, I like it even better than two UL-112's. Not only is the tone preferable (to my ears, at least), but rather against conventional wisdom, this combo is louder than two UL-112's.

    EBS Neo112/Neo112
    - the Neo112 is so small and light, you may as well go for the 1x12 versus 1x10. This combo has simply amazing mids and highs - some of the very best I have heard. The low end is somewhat shy compared to other 1x12's, but I've been able to dial in a decent amount of bass boost with mine, and they handle it well.

    Bergantino HT112/EX112 - this is the 'classic' Berg 'Mini Stack.' It has low-mid punch and fill, great texture throughout the mids, and a very 'connected' sounding high end. For punch with clarity, and the ability to do both clean and a bit of growl, this is a great setup. Jim has recently redesigned these cabs and made them a bit larger. The new cabs carry the 'ER' (for 'Extended Range') moniker, and from all accounts, they offer all that was great about the Berg Mini Stack, but with more depth and size down low. That should be a phenomenal combination!

    Bergantino AE112/AE112 - I have not heard these yet, but by all accounts, they sound like cabs worth a listen.

    Bergantino IP112/EX112 - this is almost an unfair rig, as the DSP allows it to do things that other 2x1x12 rigs cannot, but if you've got the dough, it's phenomenal. And likewise, there are the new ER versions to consider.

    Glockenklang Space Deluxe x 2 - The Space Deluxe is one of my all-time favorite 1x12's, and while I do not have two to try, I'd have to expect two of them to perform very, very well. This is definitely a 'do it all' kind of rig, with great balance from top to bottom, and the ability to do both clean or dirty convincingly.

    EA Wizzy 10, 'regular' Wizzy, and M-line Wizzy - if you do not require the sizzle of a tweeter, and if your amp can handle the 2 ohm load (or you order the 8 ohm versions), EA's Wizzy line of cabs are very impressive.

    Genz-Benz - I have not heard the NeoX112T, though I am very impressed with the NeoX212T, so I'd say that these are definitely worth a listen. The Shuttle lineup sounded great to me at NAMM, and I hope to spend some more time with them soon, but they're also worthy contenders, I'd say.

    Several other brands to try would include Aguilar (the new DB112's sound great!), Accugroove (I like the Tri 112L/Tri 115L combo) and Mesa Booige (I've heard great reports regarding their 1x12's, but have not heard them yet).

    Lots of great choices, for sure!

    Tom.
     
  12. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    This is a bad idea with bass - the two separated sources end up conflicting with each other and cancelling out different parts of your tone depending on where you stand in the room.

    On the other hand, stacking cabs, or simply using ones that are naturally tall, is an excellent idea.

    Alex
     
  13. ustabawannab

    ustabawannab Caesar's palace, morning glory, silly human race. Gold Supporting Member

    Mar 10, 2006
    Greenfield, WI.
    My suggestion 2 D112XLT is a more guitar like sound admittedly.. Chris Squire, Dave Meros ...

    The 210XST 112XLT Eden sound is less mid'y and deeper.
     
  14. bassman639

    bassman639

    Dec 23, 2006
    northeast ,pa
    +1
     
  15. CH Design

    CH Design Supporting Member

    Apr 25, 2007
    Ottawa, ON
    Tom,
    How would you compare the UL-310 against the UL-112/UL-110 stack in terms of low end and mids? Is there a big difference between the two? And what about a comparison between the UL-112/UL-110 and EBS Neo112? Do the Neo112's sound not as full, or do they just not offer as mush low end as the Epi's?
     
  16. CH Design

    CH Design Supporting Member

    Apr 25, 2007
    Ottawa, ON
    I used to have a 210XST. I found it ok. It never really sounded as clear or as articulate as my Epi to my ears.
     
  17. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    I haven't done those direct comparisons in a while, but I'd have to say that the midrange from the UL-112/UL-110 is a bit more even and punchy, but the UL-310 is going to move more air (though the two smaller cabs may present a more ideal 4 ohm load to your amp, as opposed to the 5.3 ohm UL-310).

    As for the Epi mini stack versus two Neo112's, the EBS stack has just off the hook midrange presence and articulation. Both have great high end, and the Epi cabs have a bigger, more round low end. But, it's easier to dial in the lows of the Epi's on the two Neo112's than it is to try and match the midrange presence/texture/articulation of the EBS cabs on the Epi's.

    Tom.
     
  18. CH Design

    CH Design Supporting Member

    Apr 25, 2007
    Ottawa, ON
    Thanks Tom. I've noticed in a few other posts you held the Berg HT110 in pretty high regard. Should a pair of those be a consideration too?
     
  19. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Most definitely, if you can find them. Unfortunately, it looks like Jim is not going to make any more of these, so you'd have to try to find one or two that are still available.

    FWIW, I liked two HT110's better than mixing and matching an HT110 with an HT112 or EX112.
     
  20. I have not heard the HT110, but have the HT122s, which is a similar design (hi xmax woofer and the big PA type tweeter crossed over low). If the HT110 is at least somewhat similar to the HT112s (which I believe Tom verified as being true), this would be a very wide, open, deep and pristince crystal clear tone.... even wider than your 310UL.

    I dig my HT122s for adding low end ooomph to my HT210s, but can't imagine using it as a stand alone... to wide and polite to my ears.
     

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