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12 bar blues endings

Discussion in 'General Instruction [BG]' started by BluesBassist, Apr 24, 2003.


  1. BluesBassist

    BluesBassist Guest

    Apr 17, 2003
    NE Ohio, USA
    hey all,
    ive been playing with a basic 12 bar blues progression a lot lately but cant seem to figure out a nice solid ending. anyone got any ideas?

    also, if you wouldnt mind sharing any other ways you might know to spice up the progression.

    thanks in advance
     
  2. wulf

    wulf

    Apr 11, 2002
    Oxford, UK
    It would be easy to hum a couple of endings to you... trickier to type them up in a forum friendly format!

    The best thing would be for you to listen to some of the blues recordings in your collection. Focus on the ending - once you can hum what's going on, you can then figure it out on your bass and make it part of your vocabulary.

    Wulf
     
  3. moley

    moley

    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    There are *so* many variations on yer 12 bar blues.

    A common turnaround would be I-VI-ii-V. For example, in the key of Bb, the last two bars could be:

    | Bbmaj7 G7 | Cm7 F7 |
     
  4. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    The real answer is to leave it to the pianist to figure these things out and then everybody else follow!! ;)
     
  5. There are a few basics here
    plus a book to buy if you want more.

    I would recommend listening to lots of classic 12-bar tunes, and listen to how the changes and turnarounds can lend a whole new feel to each song. There must be lots of blues compilation CDs in your local music store's Sale bin for $5 or less that would help you hear what you are looking for.
     
  6. moley

    moley

    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    ...Pianists being, of course, inherently far more intelligent than all other musicians :D
     
  7. ConU

    ConU

    Mar 5, 2003
    La Belle Province
    Here's a couple of 12 bar forms in F:

    F7/Bb7/F7/F7
    Bb7/Bb7/FMaj7/D7
    Gmi7/C7/Ami7D7/Gmi7C7

    or

    F7/Bb7/F7/Cmi7F7/
    Bb7/Bo7/FMaj7/D7sharp9
    Gmi7/Gb7/F7Ab7/Db7Gb7
     
  8. moley

    moley

    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    Yup, they are some common variations on the basic blues.

    The IV7 chord in bar two is very common - as is the VI7 leading to a ii-V, and the iii-VI-ii-V turnaround.

    In that second one you've got some common substitutions - ii V instead of V (e.g. Cm7 F7 instead of F7) - as well as the tritone subs in the turnaround - i.e. Gm7 Gb7 (instead of Cm7 C7) and F Ab7 Db7 Gb7 instead of F D7 G7 C7.
     
  9. ConU

    ConU

    Mar 5, 2003
    La Belle Province
    Moley,what do you think of Nostalgia in Times Square(Mingus)?
    It's a complete 12 bar aab melodic form,that does'nt in the traditional sense associate with the 3 primary chords of the blues or the phenomena of the move to the IV chord in the 5th bar,is it a blues?
     
  10. moley

    moley

    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    I don't know that tune, I'm afraid :(

    Have you got the changes?
     
  11. ConU

    ConU

    Mar 5, 2003
    La Belle Province
    You'd have to hear it,it's a verse form of the blues in F,in the 5th and 6th measures Mingus uses Ab-7 and Db7!!??.See if you can get a listen to it,this is atune you should know;) I'd be interested to hear your opinion.
     
  12. moley

    moley

    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    What album is it on?
     
  13. ConU

    ConU

    Mar 5, 2003
    La Belle Province
    "Wonderland".
     
  14. Andrew Jones

    Andrew Jones Banned

    Feb 28, 2001
    Northampton Mass
    Ok Im a little nervous interacting on this thread because of the resent past. Play nice


    First of all for the first questions

    This is just a bass line but its a cliche blues ending

    In C


    C Bflat A Aflat G........Dflat C


    Another

    C ,E ,F,FsharpG,A,B,C...C

    Play the first C As a short note getting to the E hold it a sec come up the next three note ans play the g a b C quick(a triplet) the bang a low C


    Con's First example while cirtanly correct on its own

    F7/Bb7/F7/F7
    Bb7/Bb7/FMaj7/D7
    Gmi7/C7/Ami7D7/Gmi7C7

    This is really "stock" Jazz Changes but that there is a One major cord on the 6th bar is suprising and it should be noted that although "correct" if I (or most people) was showing someone something this basic that cord would also be a dominant. because its more common.

    The secound one

    F7/Bb7/F7/Cmi7F7/
    Bb7/Bo7/FMaj7/D7sharp9
    Gmi7/Gb7/F7Ab7/Db7Gb7

    again thiers that One major but here its really questionable becase at the very least it shoul be
    One major over its Fith F/C .The reason is that Sharp Four diminiched cord. notice the cromatic line in the bass (bflat,B,C) thats extremly strong and realy the reason why that cord works. so following it with out showing that inversion is not really representing the harmony in it "tipical" fasion.
    Some people might say its(the sharp Four Dim) is realy 2 dominant flat 9 cord inverted which is a grey argument (a matter of opinion and tatse). saying that the cord is resolveing down a fith to the root note of the inverted one cord.Regardless I feel strongly about showing that bass movement.

    Times square is cirtainly a blues (great tune!)First of all its mingus the Master of writng blues that sound bluesy and yet dont use typical progresions! Its a 12 bar form,and its phrased stongly in that style. The Aflat minor D flat part is a reharm(Subdominant minor modal interchange baby!)But the real Give me on this part is the melody a big fat FA(4th dgree of the scale) right on one, hence your four "cord" then a couple two fives leading you back to the Eflat that has dominant function (natural minor modal interchange)that has been established from the begining and presto REALY COOL turn around. Again the Blues is in the melody.


    AJ
     
  15. ConU

    ConU

    Mar 5, 2003
    La Belle Province
    I always play nice.:cool:
    Game on.:D
    pt.1
    Those "stock" endings are something I would hope the poster would already have in his vocabulary with even the bare minimum of listening to blues.He asked for something to "spice up" the progressions,harmonic content,thus supplying the means for more "interesting" endings.
     
  16. ConU

    ConU

    Mar 5, 2003
    La Belle Province
    Interpolating the Maj Tonic chord there is very common,modern and hip.I learned that in first year jazz language,you hear it(and are supposed to be able to hear it)in jams,ensembles and gigs all the time.Bird was doing it 50 years ago.The poster said he had a handle on I7,IV7,V7 and was looking for something different.
     
  17. Andrew Jones

    Andrew Jones Banned

    Feb 28, 2001
    Northampton Mass
    Well Im guessing That he was refering to really basic blues changes.

    And that he wanted a couple of endings.


    AJ
     
  18. ConU

    ConU

    Mar 5, 2003
    La Belle Province

    The resolution from the sharp iv dim.chord(which is what it is)to the tonic is because the presence of the 5th within the tonic chord is so strong our ear is "content" with the resolution.This is a specific practice common to the blues.
    Caling it an F/C,implies an F triad over the C bass,which is ambiguous because there is no 7th and in that spot in the blues form,very unlikely.
     
  19. ConU

    ConU

    Mar 5, 2003
    La Belle Province
    great!:cool:
     
  20. Andrew Jones

    Andrew Jones Banned

    Feb 28, 2001
    Northampton Mass
    See this is the kind of stuff that we dont see Eye to Eye your point about the triad vrs is seveth cord is valid I was trying to keep it so it could go either way.
    What I dont understand is why you have a tendensy not to give me credit where credit is do. I start points with things like this I agree with and this seems close but mabye weird ect...

    You seem to love to pull isolated things out of long speals and and say things like "Incorect!"

    With the slash cord or no we can leave as "a Matter of opinion" but since we are bass player and that is something that would possibly show a bass player(are any intrument) how to view and work with that harmony I think my explination is better. Besides it has basis in sound harmonic analisis.

    But Ill be the first to say that saying because our ear fills in the gaps. Is pretty sound.

    AJ