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12" speaker for my practise combo?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by jock, Jan 13, 2004.


  1. jock

    jock

    Jun 7, 2000
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Reckomend a 12" speaker for my 40liter 60W Behringer combo. I don´t like the sound and was thinking of trying another speaker. I want warm and detaied sound. I´ll tune the cab if needed.

    The combo is wellmade from MDF but the electronics and speaker are not the best. Im gonna use a sansamp into the poweramp.

    Help me out please! :bassist:
     
  2. Stinsok

    Stinsok Supporting Member

    Dec 16, 2002
    Central Alabama
    I bought a pair of Madison 12" Warrior speakers on ebay with the intention of building a cab. On a whim I replaced the speaker in my Behringer Bx600 with one and tuned the cabinet using WinISD. I closed off the shelf port using aluminum angle. Works like a dream. While it is still a cheap amp it made a world of difference.
     
  3. miccheck1516

    miccheck1516 Guest

    Feb 15, 2003
    Ireland
    Could you elaborate on how your going to run a sansamp into the power amp. Will you just used the effects send/return, or are you intending to change the amp completly?
    I got that impression when you said you were prepard to re-tune the cabnet.....
     
  4. jock

    jock

    Jun 7, 2000
    Stockholm, Sweden
    The combo has got a poweramp in jack on the front. Simple. ;)
     
  5. miccheck1516

    miccheck1516 Guest

    Feb 15, 2003
    Ireland
    Im assuming that shutsoff the internal pre-amp?

    Also, how would you go about re-tuning the speaker cabnet, would that require you to take the head out of teh combo case, and build a seperate 1x12, thinking about it, thats a pretty cool idea, i might try it some time....
     
  6. jock

    jock

    Jun 7, 2000
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Yes, it bypasses the preamp but Im not going to take the amp out. Just not use the preamp and then get a new speaker.
     
  7. miccheck1516

    miccheck1516 Guest

    Feb 15, 2003
    Ireland
    but to re-tune the cabnet you will have to modify it in some way, wouldnt that involve changing the dimensions of it in some way???
     
  8. jock

    jock

    Jun 7, 2000
    Stockholm, Sweden
    No. Im looking for a driver that works well in the existing volume (40 liters). Then Im going to tune it with the right sized ports.
     
  9. Stinsok

    Stinsok Supporting Member

    Dec 16, 2002
    Central Alabama
    With some programs you can input the dimensions of the existing cabinet and come up with the best possible porting information. The Behringer cabinet is not really optimum so some of it was guess work/luck.
     
  10. miccheck1516

    miccheck1516 Guest

    Feb 15, 2003
    Ireland
  11. Mattski

    Mattski

    Jan 6, 2003
    Cleveland, OH
    A while back I bought a Cheap-A$$ monitor off of e-bay. Since then I have disconnected the horn and it has worked out to be an outstanding practice cab for bass. I use it at gigs for a drummer monitor (a bass monitor for my drummer) and it is my primary practice cab. I think I paid less than $150 for it.
     
  12. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    I'd be running these three through WinISD, but try tricking it into doing an SBB4 simulation. In other words, overwrite the box size and tuning frequency as follows:-

    Eminence Omega Pro 12- It likes 35 litres but give 40 a try, then tune it to 39Hz.

    Beyma 12K200 - it like 36 litres but 40 is again worth a try. Tune it to 35Hz.

    Beyma 12G125 - likes 39 litres (close enough to 40) and tune it to 41 Hz.

    I've deliberately picked speakers with a low Fs. By tuning the cab to Fs, you're less likely to distort or damage the speakers than if you tune the cab high.

    It's late, I'm off to bed. I'll have more of a play with these speakers tomorrow.
     
  13. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    OK I've had a bit of a fiddle with these speakers.

    Forget about the Beyma 12G125. It seems to have the same frequency and power handling characteristics as the 12K200, except it gives up at 125 watts.

    The 12K200 is good for 250watts, and seems to be able to take the full 250watts up to 51Hz without hitting xmax. Xmax below 51 Hz means you may get some distortion down there, but distortion in that frequency range is much harder to hear than in higher frequencies. You probably won't even notice it and are indeed probably getting worse performance from your current speaker.

    Now before you start saying "250 watts isn't much", consider this. The Omega Pro 12 is a 700 watt speaker. It will hit X-max at 76Hz when fed 215 watts. No I'm not kidding. I'll attach a screen shot of the "Max Power" graph so you can see it yourself. (Orange=Beyma, Green=Eminence). This 250watt speaker may indeed keep up with the 700watt speaker.

    I ignored my own advice above and tuned the cabs a bit higher than Fs. I found the SBB4 tuning procuced a -3dB point that was lacking in bottom end. The "Optimal Flat" version produced a frequency response curve and better max power figures. I'll attach a screen shot in my next post so you can see the frequency response curves.
     
  14. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Here you go. The Beyma is -3dB at 64Hz, the Eminence at 54Hz. So the Eminence goes lower but the possible xmax induced distortion at 76Hz will be at full volume.

    The beyma's xmax induced distortion happens at 51Hz and below. By that stage, the speaker is down 8dB making it even less audible.....

    If anyone else has any suggestions, I'm all ears.
     
  15. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    EDIT:- I just realised the amp is only 60 watts. You may want to look at the Beyma 12G125 after all. It may be cheaper than the 250watt version.

    I've attached the max power screen shot again and as you can see, the same chacteristic as it's big brother.

    I won't re-do the frequency response chart because the yellow line and the orange line were identical to each other.