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12inch Speaker replacements, suggestion??

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by j-raj, Jun 26, 2003.


  1. j-raj

    j-raj Bassist: Educator/Soloist/Performer Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jan 14, 2003
    Atlanta, GA!
    Guess who blew his BagEnd 1x12 in a practice last night...

    Yup,
    <------- this idiot!!



    Anyways, I was wondering:

    [​IMG]

    1. What are good replacements that are out there?
    2. How can I test to see if it isn't a voice coil issue?
    3. Is this something that I could replace myself?
    4. any special that I should look for?

    any help would be appreciated.







    ps, for those TB'er's that I mentioned I would trade/sell this cab, I now have a new reduced price j/k....
     
  2. Trevorus

    Trevorus

    Oct 18, 2002
    Urbana, IL
    if it is thevoice coil... move the cone with your hand. Be sure to push it straight in and let it come straight out. If there is a scratchy noise, then it's the voice coil. Replacing a speaker is easy. Just take off the grille, take out the speaker, and unhook the wires. Note the polarity. Then take your new speaker, and hook it up(noting polarity) and screw it down. Then put on the grille again. As far as replacements, eminence speakers are pretty standard. You could also contact bag end for replacements. You might be able to get a higher-power handling speaker from emminence, so this won;t happen again.
     
  3. Trevorus

    Trevorus

    Oct 18, 2002
    Urbana, IL
    an eminence delta 12-lfa would probably work quite well for you.
     
  4. ThunderStik

    ThunderStik Guest

    Jun 25, 2001
    Claremore OK.
    If you dont go with a stock driver then you will need to re-tune the cab. If you want to go with a different driver we will need to know the dims of your box, as it looks pretty small the Eminence delta 12 lf would not work well IMO, it needs a much larger box. But with a box that small the Omega pro would be your best bet but its hard to say without box dims.


    OT; I was looking at an old post earlier where you where looking for a new bass and ended up getting that warrior. Good grab.
     
  5. j-raj

    j-raj Bassist: Educator/Soloist/Performer Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jan 14, 2003
    Atlanta, GA!

    Gosh ThunderStik,

    Thanks, you sound like a pro that has encountered this before....


    Here is what I saw on the website about the cab:

    Dimensions:
    15.5"h x 18.5"w x 15.5"d
    40cm x 47cm x 40cm
    Weight:
    41 lbs.
    19kg

    Impedance:
    8 Ohms
    Frequency Response:
    50 Hz to 5 kHz ± 6 dB
    (4 pi Steradians)
    Sensitivity:
    100 dB SPL (1W @ 1m)
    Power Handling:
    200 W continuous sine wave
    400 W instantaneous peak

    Yeah man, love the Warrior, the Bartolini pre-amp (18v three)isn't bad, but I would like to switch it out for the Aggie OBP-3... I guess I would have to solve My small cab problem first, which is going to eat my earning from this weekend's gigs :meh:

    [​IMG]
     
  6. j-raj

    j-raj Bassist: Educator/Soloist/Performer Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jan 14, 2003
    Atlanta, GA!
    tmo33,

    Thanks man, I'm going to check it out this evening when I get home from work... I think that I would like to find a speaker that is as nice as the BagEnd that was in it... I have heard good things about Eminence
     
  7. ThunderStik

    ThunderStik Guest

    Jun 25, 2001
    Claremore OK.
    Yeah it looks like the Omega pro 12 is your best bet for a box that small. It will require you to re-tune the box but thia is probably twice the driver as far as quality and you should have better bottom. Also this is a 700 watt driver, but you will need the extra power handling because even though I dont know the specs of the BE driver in there usually BE drivers are pretty efficient and the Omega Pro will not be as efficient but it has a cast frame heavy magnet and will live well in a small box. You can find it at partsexpress.com for $173.53 . Outside of that I would go back to the stock driver.
     
  8. Trevorus

    Trevorus

    Oct 18, 2002
    Urbana, IL
    thanks for mentioning that. I completely forgot to mention the box requirements. DUH! *smacks head*

    Anyways, Yeah, the eminence drivers are pretty good. And that Omega will probably work best. Thanx Thunder.
     
  9. Sticking a 12" speaker that is not tuned to that enclosure will probably have disappointing results. I'd have it re-coned. It will cost less than a new speaker and will be just like a new BE speaker. There are several places on the net that do reconing. I'm sure one of our members can recommend a good re-coning site.
     
  10. j-raj

    j-raj Bassist: Educator/Soloist/Performer Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jan 14, 2003
    Atlanta, GA!

    tmo33 and Thunder,

    Thank y'all for the help, I might try and find out if it is the voice coils first. If it isn't, does it make sense to ask about a re-cone first, before going to an Omega replacement?

    What entails "re-tuning" the enclosure?
     
  11. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Commercial User

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    Boom Bass Cabinets, DR strings

    Bag End is using a driver and box designed to match up well. Change to a different driver and the results may not be what you want. I like Eminence speakers but put the wrong one in that cab and you'll probably be disappointed. Personally I'd probably stick with the stock driver if at all possible.
     
  12. j-raj

    j-raj Bassist: Educator/Soloist/Performer Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jan 14, 2003
    Atlanta, GA!
    thx Brad,

    I think that (re-coning) is going to be my first thing to address, and then if the voice coils are effected, I'll have to go the tougher more difficult road of "re-tuning" and getting a replacement all together.

    *the only problem is that my next gigs coming up(small and not-so-small) is going to have to be done with the only other cab that I own: SWR Triad... Don't get me wrong, great cab, lots of volume and punch, just going to be a little heavy (92 lbs.) and 'over-kill' on some small-venue gigs.
     
  13. billys73

    billys73

    Apr 25, 2003
    Why not just get a replacement driver from Bag End?
    You may like a different speaker in there, or hate it; but it definitely won't be the same sound you had.
     
  14. j-raj

    j-raj Bassist: Educator/Soloist/Performer Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jan 14, 2003
    Atlanta, GA!
    "yeah, that's the ticket"-John Lovitz
     
  15. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    To everyone who raised concerns about the correct cab dimensions and porting, you're absolutely right. But with a bit of planning and maths, it works.

    My primary concern here is this - what caused the speakers to blow in the first place? Because re-coning and replacement drivers are a waste of time if you don't know how to prevent it happening again.

    If the voice coil is gone, than you're probably clipping. You'd need to put your amp setting under the microscope.

    If the voice coil is OK, then the speaker is probably a victim of over excursion. That means you're either asking this cab to produce more noise than it was designed to, and/or you're feeding it frequencies significantly lower than the tuning frequency of the box. I notice on the specs that the "Usable frequency range" starts at 50Hz, which means the box is probably tuned to 55 or 60Hz. The E string is 41Hz. This isn't a problem if you keep the volume down but as soon as you crank it, the speaker woofs a bit too much and BANG!.

    PS:- it doesn't really go BANG! It actually just goes silent. I just added the BANG for dramatic effect. Did it work? :)
     
  16. ThunderStik

    ThunderStik Guest

    Jun 25, 2001
    Claremore OK.
    Petebass is exactly right. The -6db on your cab is 55hz so this thing is tuned pretty high and the driver is a "loud" driver not a low driver. I believe this would be a large upgrade but thats me. I am not trying to talk you into this or out of it, what im trying to convince you to is to not be scared to do this and then you can make the decision. If you dont find out what caused this you may end up letting the same dog bite you twice.
     
  17. j-raj

    j-raj Bassist: Educator/Soloist/Performer Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jan 14, 2003
    Atlanta, GA!
    Actually, I was using that BagEnd 1x12 as a stand-alone cab for some of the smaller gigs that I do in and around town. Before reading Pete's email, I didn't realize the frequency limitations that I have been posed with using that cab (I thought that 55hz would be the A below my low B on the 5-string, oops!).

    I guess I will need to fix this cab regardless, but I will need to find a cab that is better suited for what I plan to use it for.

    What is your suggestion is a good small cab (preferably 1x12) that I can use with my 5-string at good volume? Is the Aguilar GS112 worth my effort to purchase/look into?


    Thank all you cats for your suggestions!
     
  18. ThunderStik

    ThunderStik Guest

    Jun 25, 2001
    Claremore OK.
    I really didnt care for the gs12 at all and just mild volume the speaker would just bottom out bad on the low b. You might try one of the Bag End s-15d cabs, many of the tbers here use them with rave reviews or an Avatar compact 15 or compact 12. An acme 2-10 would probably work quite well also and would handle all the low b you throw at it and it small but is a bit inefficient so it will need some power.

    There are many myths out there that people dont understand about drivers and their specs. But here are a couple you need to understand.

    1) "usable frequency responce" or " frequency responce". Most companies will say 30hz-10khz but what they wont tell you is the curve or the +/- db, meaning its normally +/- 10-12db, which means your low b will be down 10-12db. +/- 3db is the standard of "flat" responce meaning the the signal will be flat +/- 3db thoughout a given range. +/-3db and +/-12db is huge difference.

    2) "It doesnt matter what its tuned to as long as it sounds good". This is kinda true to a point. The sound is the most important factor when we buy a cab as im sure thats why you bought yours. But driver excursion increases rapidly below the tuning of the box and if your box is tuned to 50hz (about an A) and you feed it a steady diet of 40hz and below (E and lower) with a fair amount of power you end up with a blown driver. This is not automatic and im not saying that once you play below box tuning your driver is gone but the lower and louder you go the chances greatly increase, and the driver will start to act as if its in free air (no box) and the air cushion in the box so to speak is no longer there.

    The only way to couteract the above is to tune the box to the lowest frequency it will see (in your case 31hz) but in the average box you have a loudspeaker not a "lowspeaker", in tuning a box that low when the driver is not meat to go that low you give efficiency in the lower frequencies for safety of the driver. Im sure there is other stuff I have left out and sorry for the long post but all of the above could help you understand why these things happen.


    Edit ; the above is for ported cabs not sealed.