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15 Can't Handle It...The "New & Improved" Thread

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Freakin Idiot, Aug 27, 2005.


  1. A little while ago I posted a thread titled "My 15 Can't Handle It." I got a LOT of good info from some very knowledgeable people, however my problem has yet to be solved.

    A quick rundown:
    1. I set up my semi-parametric eq according to my taste (and I know what I'm doing).
    2. My tone is causing excess excursion (cone movement) in my 15 inch Son of Bertha at somewhat high volumes (though not at gigging volume), thus giving me a limited volume at which I can play.
    3. I went back and re-did my tone from scratch...all flat and guess what? After cutting and boosting for a very long time I came up with the exact settings. Changing my tone is not an option.
    4. The compressor with ratio adjustment cuts out my punch. It doesn't sound nearly as dull as a limiter, but I still lose the punch.

    My current setup is a Spector NS2000 4 string plugged into a Mesa Boogie M-Pulse 360 which is running an SWR Son of Bertha and Goliath III in unison at 4 ohms. I don't want to run at 2 ohms.

    Also, sometime in the future I will complete my Warmoth 5 string so I'm hoping I can get ready with my amp/cab setup now.

    My options are I can get an 18 (SWR Big Ben 400 watts, 25hz), get a 15 that is tuned differently (my current 15 is tuned to 45hz and my 410 to 40hz), or just get lots more speaker/surface area.

    All that said, here comes the big question: What's out there than can deliver at the volume I want without compromising my tone (something close to SWR)?
     
  2. I have to admit getting the M-Pulse 360 really threw me a knuckle ball. I plan on getting in touch with SWR customer service one way or another (advice?) and getting a measurement on the distance from the speaker to the grill in the Big Ben. I also left out that there's pretty much no way I am going to get rid of my Goliath III. It does me well and it wouldn't be cost effective to replace it since it's not even a year old.

    I'm leaning toward the 18, but REALLY need feedback. I also need to know how it behaves in different rooms. Any and all help appreciated.
     
  3. Tash

    Tash

    Feb 13, 2005
    Bel Air Maryland
    Two words: El Whappo :)
     
  4. I would if I could, but I can't so I won't. :) That kind of movement is what I need, but even if I sold my entire rig I wouldn't have the money to pay for that thing.
     
  5. chadds

    chadds

    Mar 18, 2000
    Have you tried running the amp flat? Then adjust your tone purely from your bass. If you set your tone from the amp you limit what tone can come from your bass and more importantly from your fingers. Like subtle dynamics, right hand placement, close to neck or bridge can be a huge difference to your audience if the amp is allowed to reproduce anything instead of just what you set. Some times we think we understand tone then we go about dialing in "big lows and some fat mids and glassy highs". Then the amp doesn't do it. Also get someone out in the halls opinion about your tone in a real situation. You are giving it to much low end that's why the cone excusion. Bass waves are twenty five feet long so what you hear at your cab is not what's happening in the audience. Try it flat and cut highs if you need more bass. Try to hear the sound of your bass if you put your ear to the upper horn of the bass not plugged in. You have nice equipment. Less is more!
     
  6. chadds

    chadds

    Mar 18, 2000
    My bad you tried it flat. See the thread on using one 4x10. The power handling of the GIII is huge compared to the Son. Ditch the Son and see what you sound like. There is a reason 10s came along. Multiple 10s handle more power and are quicker then 15s and produce more bass without the mud in a gigging situation. Notice your 4x10 isn't having any issues. Still try it flat with the 4x10 and let's hear that Spector.
     
  7. ESP-LTD

    ESP-LTD

    Sep 9, 2001
    Idaho
    It sounds like you have eliminated all the variables you can and only want to know what cab will get it done.

    No one can answer that without completely duplicating your signal chain and settings (and your fingers as well). The only option you have left yourself is to test the cabs you like with your complete signal chain.

    Keep in mind that with a 5 string the problem will only get worse; you might want to wait until you have the 5 done and see. You might also have someone check your tone from different spots in the room; you may find that your favorite tone only exists in one location onstage; it makes the search a bit irrelevant.
     
  8. More SWR.

    There are other drivers out there that will crush the SWR, but no doubt will impact your tone. My suggestion is add more of the same cabs. Build an inexpensive junction box that will series/parallel multiple boxes so you don't have too low an impedance.

    You can mix 'n match the number of cabs required for a particular gig.
     
  9.  
  10. 4Mal

    4Mal Supporting Member

    Jun 2, 2002
    Columbia River Gorge
    +1

    There is flat out no one tone that will fit every situation and certainly not everyroom...

    and ...

    4 10's in a side by side and top to bottom configuration (like the Golly 4x10) have close up impact and at reasonable volume levels they work well. The farther away from the cab you get, the more 'peaky' they get though. THis is why you're seeing more cab's in the diagonal offset config. Bag End D & Q series and Bergantino NV 610 would be examples.
     
  11. protoz

    protoz

    Nov 30, 2000
    Iowa
    Sounds like you are pushing the speaker too hard or the speaker can't handle the watts you are throwing at it.

    Pick up a different cab: Avatar, Mesa or Eden should be better fits to the low end you need
     
  12. TheChariot

    TheChariot

    Jul 6, 2004
    Boston, MA
    If your insistant upon keeping your Goliath III, then at least ditch the Son of Bertha.

    I'd replace it with an Avatar B212 or B212 Neo. You'll maintain a good low end presence, while having quicker speakers and more cone surface. Matched with your Goliath III, it should be awesome.
     
  13. seansbrew

    seansbrew Supporting Member

    Oct 23, 2000
    Mesa AZ.
    What is the ohm rating of each cab and how are they hooked up to the power amp. You said you were running them in unison, im not sure what that means. Do you mean stereo, or parallel. You simply may not have enough power to controll the cone movement of your cab. What are the power requirements for each cab? Someone mentioned ditching the Sob and putting all of the power into the 4x10. This might be the solution
     
  14. Both cabs are 8 ohms and my amp is a mono amp. I have the amp running at 4 ohms.

    I turn the bass knob on my bass all the way up and then back it off a bit. With the volume on my amp at a normal level it sounds like I have an entire wall of Megoliaths. It sounds awesome. That's the tone I like; something that can fill a room or make it sound like there's an immense amount of speaker surface area.

    This is what I like about my Mesa. I can turn it up and I won't lose the tone. I just need a cabinet that can handle it. What are some of these cabs that can crush a SOB? I would like you guys to name a few. I like the sound of 15s. It blends well with my 4x10. The reason is because there is a huge difference when I unplug the 15 and leave the 4x10 plugged in. There's not a very big difference in tone even at 50 feet away in any direction (gotta love those female-female couplers...though I do have to turn the gain up).

    I need a large speaker that can take a beating. My Guitar Center has nothing in the way of large speakers, save a Powerhouse 1000. I loove the sound of an EBS 410 at my other music store, but they don't have any 15s or 18s that I could try.

    These are some of the 15s I would like to hear about. EBS, Eden, Mesa Boogie and any others that you guys think sound good and can take a beating. Would these brands be able to handle more than my SOB?

    Thanks guys and keep 'em comin'.
     
  15. seansbrew

    seansbrew Supporting Member

    Oct 23, 2000
    Mesa AZ.
    I used to have the SWR Sob and it didn't give me the lows that I needed. It is not designed too. It is more of a midrange cabinet than anything. I pretty much had the same problem that you do. I got rid of the 15 and 4x10 and went to a 6x10 goliath Sr. Unfortunatly the sound that we dial in when we are at home does not work at the gig. I suggest a big ben, get rid of the SOB. Also I really dont think that you have enough power. I try to go just over the power rating of a cab if I can. I pump 1200 watts into my Ampeg BXT 4x10 and it lights up. It is rated at 600 watts rms.
     
  16. ESP-LTD

    ESP-LTD

    Sep 9, 2001
    Idaho
    I'm assuming that's the active EQ on the Spector, which is probably boosting 40-80hz by 6-12db or so. If you want that to be loud, buy BIG power amps (2-4kw) and several 15" or 18" subwoofers.

    That being said, I was just at an outdoor show, where they had a nice PA to carry the bass (like over a dozen 15" subs). I watched the bass player and I'm pretty sure he was playing lots of notes (he seemed pretty busy), but all I could hear out front was kind of a muddy rumbling echo. I couldn't tell what note was being played, or even what type of note (like the beat) but it was certainly loud enough. Kind of a bad idea it seemed to me, but it wasn't my style of music I guess.
     
  17. My entire bass is passive and I'm not sure what the bass knob is boosting, but it was well chosen. That single knob does more to my sound than any other knob on my amp.

    Maybe I'll just throw in a new pickup. I hate EMGs anyway...too much midrange and that might be the problem anyway. My Ibanez doesn't push my 15 like that.
     
  18. seansbrew

    seansbrew Supporting Member

    Oct 23, 2000
    Mesa AZ.
    On a passive instrument turning up the bass actually subtracts the midrange and highs. I think its the entire rig that is wrong I am sorry to say. Your Sob is 350 watts and the 4x10 is 700 and your only putting 350 watts into both? I think you are merely underpowered. Also, I know the frustration of spending money on a rig that doesnt give you what you want. I have been there before. I am still working on my sound. I had it once, but I got rid of it. The best sound I ever had was an SM 900 into a Goliath SR. with a stingray bass. I sold them all and am back to square one. Hang in there, you'll figure it out, maybe.
     
  19. Yeah it's 360 watts running both. My Mesa definitely has enough power to push them, but are you saying it's not powerful enough to do the dampening? I guess that makes sense, but what if I get my power amp and I still have the same problem?
     
  20. ESP-LTD

    ESP-LTD

    Sep 9, 2001
    Idaho
    Now I'm confused. You have said you are playing a Spector NS2000 Q4 . Quoting from an old MF page:


    This is a great playing bass with star looks. It features a 3-ply hard maple bolt-on neck, new EMG/HZ U.S.-made pickups, active tone controls, an alder body topped with quilted maple, and black-plated hardware.


    All the references I have found indicate that it has an onboard preamp with EMG-HZ pickups. So yours is different than this?

    Spector NS 2000 Q4