1965 P-Bass: LPB "faded to green."

Discussion in 'Basses [BG]' started by Ian McLaughlin, Jun 23, 2019.


  1. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD

    Feb 20, 2005
    Syracuse NY
    Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
    My secret was that I didn't. ;) I emailed Mark Jenny and made him do all the hard work. He probably did this one the 'traditional way' by careful application of tinted clearcoat (I had pictures of progress along the way. And you'd have to carefully build up the 'color change' as it matches vintage instruments in being uneven. You can see it on the headstock finish too.

    Here's a sampling of some details. Note that the hardware is fitted here before I did the aging to it. So basically Mark did all the finish work and I did all the hardware aging. The body and neck were done by USACG (again, fairly early on)...and its designed to have all the 'best parts' of a few years of Fender telecasters I loved without being 100% true to vintage. A true vintage guitar person would easily see the problems of this instrument but many passive guitar people do think it's original.

    [​IMG]

    Some notes:
    Over-all it's visually a 1963/64, but IBM wasn't on the docket until 65.
    It has a Brazilian rosewood board with clay dots (The wood was legit recovered vintage rosewood, I was literally the first clay dot neck that USACG did, I provided them with 3 sets so they could work on it and test and have extras just in case). The pickups are a Seymour Duncan Broadcaster bridge and a DiMarzio Twang-king neck. The components are high quality modern small production but not hand-rolled paper/oil caps, etc. And probably the biggest 'wolf in sheep's clothing' along with the broadcaster pickup is that it's a super-light select swamp-ash body, which would be way more accurate for a 50's Broadcaster.
     
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  2. silky smoove

    silky smoove Supporting Member

    May 19, 2004
    Seattle, WA
    Is this a thing that will happen with modern LPB basses, or is it specific to vintage finishes? I have a metallic LPB Jazz from Warmoth that was built back around 2005. In that time it’s seen tons of use, plenty of UV exposure, etc. and to my eyes it looks just as LPB as it did when it arrived. It’s definitely got a glossy clear coat over the metallic LPB. Will my bass someday turn green?
     
  3. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD

    Feb 20, 2005
    Syracuse NY
    Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
    It probably has more to do with the materials used.

    We have a poly-finished clear hard wood floor (wide pine) in our house. When we moved in, in early 2016 we had the floors re-done due to 'dog damage'...we recently lifted our oriental run in the dining room that gets light but doesn't get ton of direct harsh sunlight, the difference between under the rug and exposed is dramatic. That's 3 years.
     
  4. silky smoove

    silky smoove Supporting Member

    May 19, 2004
    Seattle, WA
    As in the particular type of finish that was applied?
     
  5. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD

    Feb 20, 2005
    Syracuse NY
    Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
    Yes, the type of poly that they used, although I think that pretty much all of them age in some form or another.
     
  6. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD

    Feb 20, 2005
    Syracuse NY
    Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
    Here's a 78 Telecaster (not mine), pretty good difference in color:

    [​IMG]
     
  7. wraub

    wraub

    Apr 9, 2004
    ennui, az
    UV light will turn the clear coat yellow, thereby turning blue to green.

     
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  8. Ian McLaughlin

    Ian McLaughlin

    Aug 11, 2018
    Thanks.
     
  9. wraub

    wraub

    Apr 9, 2004
    ennui, az
    No problem.

     
    Ian McLaughlin likes this.
  10. Jim C

    Jim C I believe in the trilogy; Fender, Stingray, + G&L Supporting Member

    Nov 29, 2008
    Bethesda, MD
    This
    I like the inital look of the old oil based poly but it ambers badly in the sunlight
    The original water based stuff was horrible and you had to add a lot more coats; the new water based stuff doesn't look as rich initally but it doesn't amber nearly as much (and sometimes not at all depending on the eacts amount of sun). Plus you can do 2 or 3 coats in a day as it dries MUCH faster.

    You can see it in how car paint ages from the 50's through today.
    The new 2-part clear coats are magic compared to the old Dupont acrylic lacquer or enamel finishes.
    True that the old finishes weren't clear coated for the most part but modern 2-part paint in general is pretty tough and fade resistant.

    Same with modern exterior latex house paint.

    Aged metal; other than abrasion did you use any acid or bleach to try and push the surface finish?
     
  11. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD

    Feb 20, 2005
    Syracuse NY
    Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
    Yeah, I tried both muriatic acid and 'etchant solution' depending on the parts. Muriatic acid was harder to work with effectively but the other stuff, you have to apply and remove quickly so you don't grunge it up too much.
     
  12. 2F/2F

    2F/2F

    May 26, 2009
    Los Angeles, CA
    It's slightly more involved knowledge, but not by much.

    LPB is a [rare] metallic that held up okay without clear over it. More commonly, they'd skip the clear on opaque colors. But it was still not S.O.P. by any means. It shows up most often on factory oversprays.

    The most obvious examples are Oly Whites, which were often not cleared in the early days of the color. Those do yellow, but very little, and in a more "splotchy" way.

    A bass like the one in the ad in question is obviously clear coated and yellowed, however. The question should not be, "Is this explanation of the current color legit." It should be, "Is the finish original, or is it a contemporary refin/relic job." Of course the explanation makes sense, as that was the norm. The only question is whether it's genuine aging or not.
     
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  13. Tad

    Tad Supporting Member

    Dec 10, 2007
    Boise, Idaho
    Isn’t that why folks disparage the color of the Blonde ‘51 Reissue basses is because they don’t believe that the clear coat could actually yellow that much to be “school bus” or “banana “ yellow?
     
  14. 2F/2F

    2F/2F

    May 26, 2009
    Los Angeles, CA
    I don't think it's because they "don't believe." It's because it looks fake (and ugly IMO) when it's faked. It's too uniform, doesn't have the wear to match, the color isn't really "right" (if you've ever seen an old one you know what I mean), etc....and those orange-ass necks that went with them made it even worse.

    I, for one, hate factory fresh BSB, but tons of others love it. The sheer number of AVRI '52 Tele reissues in BSB should prove that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  15. Tad

    Tad Supporting Member

    Dec 10, 2007
    Boise, Idaho
    I see your point and that may be true. I have to admit that yellow is my favorite color. I have held my ‘51 RI next to an original ‘51 and it was actually pretty close. I do agree that the color on the ‘51 RI’s is fairly uniform. I don’t think that my neck is orangey, but you may disagree. I could see that if the original clear coat yellowed that it may put an orangish tint on a maple neck.

    942ACAAE-1B9D-42A1-8D37-2C313DD157CA.jpeg

    I might be one of those that just likes the factory BSB, and I really can’t dispute that. I have two basses, the ‘51 Ri and a Modern Player Telecaster Bass,

    123AE097-ECE6-42D6-ACBB-1E75D811BD7B.jpeg
    and three guitars, all three versions of the Squier ‘51, that came in a factory butterscotch blonde finish.

    FBED51F4-5AB6-4A89-B9BD-724C7484BADD.jpeg

    I do like butterscotch blonde and the variations of that color.

    I also like that buttercream. That is why I bought a Player Jazz in that color.

    730730F8-CB8E-449F-9299-A430CDE7CF07.jpeg
     
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  16. the irony is stunning, um, CaptObvious.
     
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  17. Bigbri

    Bigbri

    Aug 4, 2015
    It really sucks nowadays that you cannot buy with confidence. Its so easy to see the difference if you can a/b a vintage guitar next to a known real one. I've always had the feeling that other than playing a guitar, the best way to relic one is to throw the body around in your driveway for the appropriate amount of time instead of using a piece of sandpaper or screwdriver.
     
  18. My bad, the original photos didn't show up in my iphone browser! Gorgeous color!! Obviously. ;)
     
  19. jd56hawk

    jd56hawk

    Sep 12, 2011
    The Garden State
    Here's a nice example.
    Can anyone guess the blue?
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Axstar

    Axstar Inactive

    Jul 8, 2016
    Scotland.
    Word.

    My Epi WildKat has a ghost 'poker chip' around the pickup switch. This is on a modern thick, hard poly finish. You would think new stuff would be better, but UV always hits the mark!
     
    wraub likes this.
  21. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
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