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1x12- can it compete?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by sjwaud, Feb 14, 2004.


  1. sjwaud

    sjwaud

    Oct 22, 2003
    Hi all~
    I am on a super low budget and need something that is small gigable ASAP. I just bought a 400rb head off of ebay and I need a cab now. What I want to know is, will an avatar 1x12 with this head be able to hack it with a deluxe reverb and an average size kit- classic/jam rock setting? or am I going to be pissed in a couple months I didn't just save up a little more? I can't really afford the 4x10 or 2x12 right now. So it's either their 2x10 or 1x12. Should I just get the 8 ohm 1x12 and figure on adding another 1x12 in a couple months? I will probably end up running upright through this too on some jazz gigs. Thanks so much for your help.
     
  2. The 0x

    The 0x

    Aug 24, 2003
    Timonium, MD
    For practice it might be enough, and if you get another, then it'll be enough for gigging.
     
  3. That is almost the exact same situation that I'm in right now. I think that I'm going to buy a power amp and use my bass v-amp as a preamp, so I'll be running a lot more power into the cab than you. I plan on adding a 2x10 later.
     
  4. Bass

    Bass

    Nov 10, 2003
    Canada
    I've been playing my Avatar B210 for about a month. It's great! Fast shipping, fair price, sounds terrific. Thanks TalkBass, I wouldn't have known about Avatar were it not for this forum.

    I vote for the 210. You can add a 212 when you can afford it and you'd be very happy with your rig.
     
  5. nonsqtr

    nonsqtr The emperor has no clothes!

    Aug 29, 2003
    Burbank CA USA
    Yep, a 1x12 is pretty small for classic rock jams. With the right cab it might work, but you'll probably be looking at one of those rear loading folded horn jobs (nothing as simple as an Avatar cab, more like the old Acoustic 301's).

    Two 12's is about like 1x15 in terms of its ability to deliver bottom end, certainly you'll do a lot better with two than with one. Definitely look into high power speakers though, some of the EV's are great that way, and according to Ted Weber, Eminence is making some good ones these days.

    IMO the speaker is one area where you can't compromise. If you want to get the thump "out there" into the audience, you'll need big speakers. But, you might not need that fat bottom end that crawls up into your gonads, if you tweak the EQ just right and get rid of some of the extreme low frequencies, you can make a 12" setup sound pretty good, loud and authoritative.
     
  6. jobu3

    jobu3 Artist formerly known as Big Joe

    Feb 17, 2002
    Mountain Top, PA
    Fender Reverbs are LOUD amps. They are meant to be played loud and stay clean almost right up to the top. Now if your guitarist doesn't crank it up, you might be OK for self-monitoring purposes. If he turns it up past 3, you are going to need more wattage and more speaker area or you won't move enough air to hear yourself and no one else will either. Will you have PA support or will your amp pretty much be it?
     
  7. sjwaud

    sjwaud

    Oct 22, 2003
    Thanks for the responses y'all. I've been working so far with a JC-120- it's been plenty of power but the tone is just not quite there. I'm looking for a bit more tight bottom- the JC-120 is an open back guitar amp so it's pretty loose. I honestly haven't gone beyond about 3 on it so I figure the 400rb->1x12 should be okay, at least for practice. Most of the places we will be playing I can probably utilize the PA if necessary.
     
  8. I use a CB112 at practice with two guitar players,one with
    a Fender Hot Rod Deville 410 and the other a Hot Rod Deluxe 112,and keep up with them pretty well without the speaker farting out at all on the loud stuff .If I were you though I'd get the 210 Avatar first.The 210 has more speaker area so it will compete better volume wise and you can always add the 112 later.I'm very impressed with the 112s from Avatar just as I was with the Aguilar 112 I had.They handle more power and get louder than you would think for a 112 but they are still just a 112.A 210 will get louder.
     
  9. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    I agree. But the guitarists I've come across who use that amp don't seem to play all that loud. They like it clean so you never hear any of the typical guitarist BS about needing to play rediculously loud to get the amps and speakers breaking up.

    If it's not a loud band, and I get the impression it's not, a 1x12 will be fine.
     
  10. jobu3

    jobu3 Artist formerly known as Big Joe

    Feb 17, 2002
    Mountain Top, PA
    That's funny... It's just the opposite around here. The twin users I know have them for the outdoor gigs and REALLY big rooms with and sometimes without mic'ing it because the DO go so loud while staying clean all the while. I have yet to meet anyone playing one that didn't really crank the juice out of it. Playing a twin at low volumes kind of defeats the purpose... Like bringing an SVT and two 810 cabs to a lounge gig. Most guitarists I know have smaller 15 watt combos for such venues. Just my experience though. And yes, a 112 seems like it would work well in his case, I think a 210 would probably be a better all-around first cab though for SJ being with the super-low budget and all. ;)
     
  11. Just get a 112. It'll be plenty loud with PA support, and when you add another one, you'll be even happier. I play in a pretty loud rock band myself sometimes, and all I use is a 112 most of the time.
     
  12. nonsqtr

    nonsqtr The emperor has no clothes!

    Aug 29, 2003
    Burbank CA USA
    "I've been working so far with a JC-120- it's been plenty of power but the tone is just not quite there. I'm looking for a bit more tight bottom- the JC-120 is an open back guitar amp so it's pretty loose. I honestly haven't gone beyond about 3 on it..."

    sjwaud, I'm getting a much better picture now. Okay, Deluxe Reverb (20 watts) for guitar, Roland JC-120 for bass, and an "average sized kit" for drums. Roland bass amp never turned over "3". Sounds almost like a rock band at reasonable volume (something my momma told me didn't exist)!

    Well, in a situation like that, you might be able to get away with a 1x12. Straight up, it'll be borderline, but with the right speaker and cab it might work. I've heard good things about the Avatar cabs, and don't they use the Eminence 400 watt speakers?

    The thing is, they're "small" (physically), and ultimately that's what you're running into with bass volume issues, it's just physics. It takes more power to move a low frequency note from point A to point B, 'cause a lot of the "sound" travels through the ground (as distinct from through the air). So part of what a good bass cab does is to build up a high sound pressure level internally, which may or may not be the case in a single ported 12" enclosure.

    I think, you're just gonna have to try it. :)

    If it doesn't work, try a 15 instead. You'll be amazed at how much more low end you can get out of a 15, as distinct from a 12. But the same principles apply, so loud volume is equated with physically big cabs, that kind of thing.

    Good luck, I hope it works for you!
     
  13. Are you going to be able to use PA re-inforcement? With PA re-informent, 1x12 will probably be enough, if it isn't fold some back through the monitors if necessary. If you are going stand alone in a rock band, I think you need at least 2x12's
     
  14. jobu3

    jobu3 Artist formerly known as Big Joe

    Feb 17, 2002
    Mountain Top, PA
    My bad... I was thinking of the Fender Twin and Twin Reverb amps which are the loud ones. :rolleyes: I still think you'd be better going with a 210 for more cut though. ;) :cool:
     
  15. sjwaud

    sjwaud

    Oct 22, 2003
    Once again, thanks for your help- it seems the consensus is to get an 8 ohm 2x10- is there anyone who would recommend the 1x12 over the 2x10?

    I would probably describe the music as reasonable levels rock- post-hippie jam music that sometimes regresses back into hippie jam music :cool:
     
  16. jobu3

    jobu3 Artist formerly known as Big Joe

    Feb 17, 2002
    Mountain Top, PA
    Most recent pix I've seen of Phil Lesh have been with Eden and SWR 210's. :cool:
     
  17. afroman

    afroman

    Aug 31, 2000
    Brooklyn, NY
    I'd also recommend you get the 210 first, it wont get much bottom (as a 12" speaker can) but it will have more volume and will cut through the mix better.
    The Avatar's seem like the best choice of affordable quality.

    Good luck...
     
  18. NeedMoreBass

    NeedMoreBass unregistered

    Feb 14, 2003
    I personally think you should call David at Avatar and ask him what would be the best. You have a low wattage head that may not push the 2x10" cab very well. :bassist:
     
  19. brianrost

    brianrost Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 26, 2000
    Boston, Taxachusetts
    Yes, most definitely.

    The 400RB into a wide variety of cabinets is a road tested professional standard. The 1-12" cabinet will push enough air for your application.
     
  20. sjwaud

    sjwaud

    Oct 22, 2003
    Well I now have another option- even though I'm on a super low budget I may end up getting an Eden d210xlt. I found one used close enough that I can go drive and pick it up.. and it's only $150 difference from the avatar 210. Makes sense? Plus if I decide to hock it at some point I can probably get back the $$ I paid for it. The only thing is- will the 400rb be able to push it?