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Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Piezoman, Jun 6, 2003.
Which cab will give me a deeper sound?
i belive the frequency response of a 15 is lower than 12s even 2 together..Although,id bet the 12s would be a lot louder..i use a 1 15 until i get my 2x10 to go with it and my ampeg I just bought, i cant wait till that comes to my door, hopfully today..
i never heard 2 12s as a bass cab
in my car same amp i hit 133bd on the 12s and 145 db on my 15s..15s just have more spL and the LOWS but 2 TWELVES may sound prrety good though
WELL, I am gonna get a 4x10 to cut through the noise and sound good. I want whatever will give me a deep bassy sound to go with my 4x10.
id go with the 15 Especially if you have 10s in the mix 12s will overlap the frequecies of your 10s becuse its not a drastic enough change going from 10s to 12s but 15s or mabey even an 18 would be bad as s for you
I've got the Avatar 212 cab and it is WAY bassier than my old Mesa 115. It's also tighter and more defined. Haven't owned an Avatar 115 though.
The B115 - "Enclosure is tuned to 50 Hz and the -3dB is 50 Hz". The approx speaker size of a 115 is 176.
The B212 - "Enclosure tuned to 50 Hz with the -3dB at 50 Hz". The approx speaker size of a 212 is 226.
They look like they will go down to the same freq, according to the website. Also, the size of the B212 is 27H x 25W x 16.5D, which should match up with the B410 or the B115.
The Delta 12LF is rated an average of approx 94db. The Kappa Pro 15LF is rated an average of approx 97db. The two coupled Delta 12s will also get an extra 3db because of the coupling effect of multiple speakers. So, with the sensativity ratings roughly the same, and the speaker area more, the B212 will probably be louder.
Take that with a grain of salt because I am not a sound pro!
if you want sufficient bass and use it as a standalone from time to time, the 212. It will add some rumble compared to the 10's, as well as being punchier than the 15. Im stating the obvious here, but seriously... It'll be louder than the 410 from what I heard. I'd get a 15 to go under a 212. heh. just make sure youve got a tweeter in one or both cabs and your set.
I don't think the B212 could possibly be louder than the B410. The B410 has more speaker area and higher sensativity too.
Again, take that with a grain of salt.
I have a Eden 410XLT & a Bergie 2/12....the 2/12 smokes the Eden in all areas...bass response, high end clarity etc.....just my two pennies
This should be interesting... I'm considering the two cabs in question as well to add to my Avatar b210 for when I have an excuse to upgrade my rig. I recall there was a thread about this a while ago, Schwinn is one member who has both cabs and likes the 212 better, I think he has the older 115 though.
well jerry, even though the eds are good, nothing is like a berg
just my 2 pennies
NEITHER! Both have crappy @$$ speakers, so it doesn't make a difference...
Seroiusly though, save your money for something better like a Bag End or Berg. Just my 2 cents... Oh, and a 1x15 is better of course.
Eminence Kappa, and Eminence Delta speakers crappy? Wow. That's the first time I heard that. And your qualifications are?
I just pu these out cuz they are real cheap and avs are supposed to be great for the money. Is it worth it?
1. The low end of the frequency range given by the manufacturer doesn't mean a whole lot. It could mean the 3 dB down point for that cab. Or 10 dB. I saw one where added comments showed it was 2 dB. I asked to see the frequency response curves for two cabs I ended up not buying. One was so ragged I knew I could never EQ out the hills and valleys. The other was horribly deficient in bass. None of the information on the web told me these things. Also, if you know what driver is in the cab, you can get a good idea what's going on by getting the spec sheet for that driver. Dave doesn't keep any secrets, he'll flat out tell you what woofers he's putting into his boxes so you can go to the Eminence site and download the spec sheet.
2. From what I have been reading, the Avatar is a quality speaker. Price doesn't necessarily have a lot to do with quality. Like Acme speakers, they are sold directly to the customer. That makes it possible to pass savings on to the customer from not having a huge advertising budget, not giving equipment and money away for endorsements, not jacking the price up so the distributor and dealer can get their cut. The basic American formula for arriving at list prices shocked me when I first heard it. Full retail (or list price) is double what the factory charges. The factory charges double what it costs to make it (including advertising, employee pension funds, and other things you may not think of). It can't hurt to look first at goods put out by manufacturers who figure out ways not to make you pay for things that don't add any value to the goods. Some companies are in between in savings, like Carvin, which does endorsements and ads, but sells direct (however there are economies of scale at work there, offsetting some of the costs).
3. Something I heard over 30 years ago is that if you stack two drivers, you get quadruple, or 6 dB more bass than just one speaker. I don't know why. I just know it works. This is why a 2x12 has more bottom than a 1x15. People say that a 15 goes lower because the specs say it does. But that number as mentioned is not based on any sudden cutoff. Most 12s will go just as low as a 15, they are just not as loud (the curve will dip down lower than the 15). But stack two 12s that put out only half the bottom as a 15, and all of a sudden you have twice the bottom of that 15.
4. One thing that is definitely worth considering is how much power you have available. If you don't have 500 to 1000 watts, call Dave and ask him if his cab will work well with the power you do have on hand (and make sure you tell him what load too, like 350 watts at 4 ohms or whatever).
Best wishes, Kurt
WELL, CAN YOU GUYS BAC THIS UP WITH SOME FACTS LIE A FEW PPL DID?
TYPING IN ALL CAPS MEANS YOU'RE YELLING!!!!!!!!!
I was surprised with how the B212 handles the low end. Yeah, I have the B115 too (both are the front ported designs). A couple of weeks ago when I only wanted to take one cab to a show the B115 stayed behind. Both are great cabs, but the 212 sounds a tad better to me and is every bit as low as as the 115. I was EXPECTING the 115 to be lower, but it really isn't, just like kurosawa said.
wow. ignorance is rampant in his vibes.
price has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with quality. because you are buying from them direct, they dont have to mark the prices high as stores do. there is no middle man to pay, no hub to pay, no carriers to pay, and no stores to mark it up to make a profit. all of that can easily mark the price up $300 bones or more. and, your remarks demonstrating your lack of knowledge on what speaker diameter gives more lows is astounding. an 8x8 cab gives more lows than many other cabs....and im sure if youre not educated about this, it just would be piping hot with irony, wouldnt it?
stop the ignorance, and do not judge a book by its cover.
my next rig will be an avatar 210 w/ a 212, and a carvin r1000. ive had "better" rigs (if possible), but i just can never keep them because of money constraints. this one ill keep..definately.