2 blown Eden cabs in 3 weeks! What next!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by jazz5757, Feb 24, 2004.

  1. Yeah, you heard it right---BOTH of my 210XLT's crapped out within 3 weeks of each other (both are also over 5 years old). Specifically, the speakers in one "appear" to be blown judging from the distortion and the other one "may" be (just dropped them off yesterday with my tech). The tech tells me that I'm killing them by playing the low B stuff with my fiver, and that I "really should get a 15 cab and bi-amp it". Is this hogwash? I'm usually playing smaller to medium-sized gigs using only 1 210XLT and sometimes I'll add my Ag GS112 and evrything has sounded great. I'm powering the cab or cabs through my DB750 and I usually alternate between several vintage p basses that I own and my Elrick 5. This tech suggested that I get a 15 cab and then buy a two-way crossover so that I can send all the lows to the 15. Now I'm horribly confused----what to do?
  2. Brendan


    Jun 18, 2000
    Austin, TX
    I'd say hogwash. 210XLTs are just fine handling the B-stringy goodness of a 5 string.
  3. The Aguilar is 750 watts at 4 ohms. Both of my Edens are 8 ohm cabs----so does that mean that using 1 of them I'll only be getting 375 watts from the Aguilar? I believe the 210XLT is rated at 350 watts.
  4. Nick man

    Nick man

    Apr 7, 2002
    Tampa Bay
    How many ohms is each cab and how do you have them hooked up?

    I doubt he's over powering it with that amp, maybe underpowering it if he's trying to get really loud and the amp is clipping.

    What I would do if I were you is send Eden the speakers that are broken, maybe even all of them since its five years old, and they will recone them.

    I blew a speaker in my Eden cab (by owerpowering it way past its specs) and I did this and they were pretty fair about the pricing and quicker than they said they would be.

    If you want to try another cab for more low end look at the Eden D-210XST. I just picked up my second one and it is killer. Deeper lows than any other Eden cab.

  5. Saetia


    Mar 27, 2003
    I believe a rule of thumb is your amp will produce 2/3rd the rated 4 ohm load at 8 ohms. So your amp will produce about 500 watts @ 8 ohms. At least every amp I've ever run into has been that way.
  6. Nick man

    Nick man

    Apr 7, 2002
    Tampa Bay
    In that case, I think there is a good chance that you are underpowering them. If you arent familiar how this will damage your cab look around the forums here, but Ill give you a quick explanation.

    Whats happening is that you are driving a power amp of too low power, too hard, to get the volume you need. This causes the power amp to clip and send a badly distorted signal which is whats destroying your speaker. A lot of people around here recommend about twice as much power from your amp as your speakers can take. Either that, or having enough speaker surface that you dont even need to drive your amp hard to be loud are the only ways to be heard.

    You might want to contact Eden about reconning your speakers and ask them if they can switch your cab to 4 ohms. That way you will run the amp at 900 watts or so @ 2 ohms and take advantage of that extra headroom.

  7. I certainly don't have to crank the amp at all----in fact, it's rare that I ever have the volume up to even 4---it's never been over halfway, but if some of the recent comments are correct, it may be that I'm pushing 500 watts on some ocaisions into a cab that's only rated at 350 watts, maybe that's the issue.
  8. oh yeah-----the DB750 has never clipped while I've used it.
  9. I don't mean to be rude, just making an observation...

    But how fecal ingesting insane is it to say "I've got a 700w amp, I'm running it thru a 2x10, I'm underpowering the cab."?
  10. Nick man

    Nick man

    Apr 7, 2002
    Tampa Bay
    Number one, he's running two 2-cabs through it.

    Number two, why not?

    If he's running the amp into clipping to get the volume he needs, and the cabs can handle that power clean, then he's underpowering them.

    Since he said he's not clipping the amp then thats not the case.

    I would recommend getting the speakers reconed as they probably just weakened from the years of use. You might want to look into the 210XST anyways.

  11. Richard Lindsey

    Richard Lindsey

    Mar 25, 2000
    Metro NYC
    Again--and this has come up numberless times--there's not really any such thing as underpowering a cab. A search around here will pull up a lot on this. In general, the problems resulting from so-called underpowering tend to result from either overexcursion of the speaker or from *overpowering* some component of your speaker cab as a result of being underpowered for your playing situation.
  12. Nick man

    Nick man

    Apr 7, 2002
    Tampa Bay
    Of course.

    In reality, you are overpowering your speaker by using an amp without enough power.

    By using an amp that cant keep up and pushing it into clipping you are overpowering it. Odly enough the solution is to buy more power.

    Then again, this isnt the situation this time.

  13. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Terrific Twister

    Apr 12, 2001
    Lacey, WA
    After an extensive conversation I had with our resident "Eden guy" Munjibunga, he showed me that the lows from a 210XLT are better than the lows in a 115XLT. (Either that, or I completely misunderstood the PM's he sent me! DOH!)

    The tech was most likely expressing his personal opinion, and it could have been based on using inferior gear to Eden. Maybe with other brands, a 115 is necessary.

    I don't have enough knowledge to comment on this particular problem, just wanted to share my personal experience. Sounds like some bad luck to me in this case.

  14. hands5


    Jan 15, 2003
    good 'ol USA/Tampa fla.
    Cow Cookies ! :mad: The Eden 2x10 LT's are fine,It has nothing to do with you using the B string hell my 4x10 SWR crap out on me over the summer and I used it for damn'er 10 years and played a 4/5 string bass + a keyboard thru it but like any thing when it gets old it is prone to wear& tear nightin & nightout something is gotta give.
    Just replace the drivers and check the crossover and you will be fine.You're not confused your tech is :confused:
  15. Some very good responses. I'm tending to think that perhaps it's just a "use issue"----speakers don't last forever, especially when you're playing bass through them. Unfortunately, the reconing solution isn't cheap---my tech said that it will run me about $90 for EACH speaker if he has to recone them---that's $380 "if" I have to do 4 of them---however, a cab with blown speakers ain't worth squat so ther's not much choice...
  16. Richard Lindsey

    Richard Lindsey

    Mar 25, 2000
    Metro NYC
    But ... I thought more power was *always* the solution for any bass player! Regardless of the situation! ;)

    Seriously, bigger amps are a Good Thing, but given what the DB750 puts out and the efficiency of the Eden cabs, you're probably right that power isn't the problem here. It's worthwhile to remember, though, that overpowering can happen whether the amp is clipping or not, depending on circumstances.
  17. Pete


    Jan 3, 2004
    Seattle, WA
    I blew 3 maybe 4 speakers in my 210xlt over the last 2 years and I'm getting tired of it myself. If I do blow them up I will prolly replace them with EV DL10x's or something similar. Mine is the 8 ohm box and when I opened it up both speakers were wired in series. Meaning when one goes, the prolly will soon. I think I'll try to get 16 ohm drivers and go in parallel but I doubt I can find EV's set up like that.

    The point is that the speakers are still 10" and only rated 175w continous and 350w RMS (700 peak). Adding a second in series doens't change their power handling at all. I still find myself boosting mids on the 210xlt vs th 410xlt. The 410 was really meant to throw and the 210 more or a monitor nearfield box.

    Check on the Aguilar amp and see if there's a High Pass Filter, if so engage it at 30Hz or so. Everything below that is a serious waste of power and can do a lot of damage to your speakers.

  18. I figure I'm about as power hungry as any bass player, but to say that 700w is underpowering a 2x10 or a 4x10 really seems kind of kooky.

    I do agree with you that the fix is getting speakers reconed, however- to have them both go out at the same time- unless something catastrophic happened to the amp and/or speakers- just seems kooky as well. Many years ago I was using an SWR Triad + a GII as my main rig. The 15 in the Triad went, but all the other speakers were OK. A few years later I got a brand new Bass 750, the output section "fried" sending all the power it had to the speaker cab (the GII) causing all 4 to blow (3 of which the cone was torn one the coil was zapped- the speaker worked, but was scratchy). In my cases, the 15 went because of use, possibly over excursion, but the 10 was fine, BUT the 4x10 blew because of a catastrophic event (the output section of the amp "frying") all four speakers "went" to varying degrees. I find it highly improbable that 4 speakers would go within 3 weeks- even if all four were manufactured on the same day, with the same material, subjected to the same load without some external, out of the ordinary circumstance.
  19. thejohnkim


    Sep 30, 2003
    but maybe its still more likely for speakers wired to recieve the same power distribution to blow all at once, than speakers in something like a triad where a crossover manages the input/output to distribute the signal proportionally, no?

    i'm just reasoning it through with no specific physics in mind
  20. Yes, I hadn't thought of the crossover, however, even when the GII got zapped, 3 cones were torn, not 4.