SOLD 2008 Fodera Emperor Deluxe 5 Quilt Maple

Discussion in 'For Sale: Bass Guitars' started by sleeplessknight, Jul 17, 2019.

  1. sleeplessknight

    sleeplessknight Supporting Member

    Mar 8, 2002
    F/S (no trades, please) is my pride and joy, a 2008 Emperor Deluxe 5-string:

    Walnut body
    Stunning curly-maple top
    35" scale neck
    Brazilian rosewood/"Kingwood" fret board[1]
    3-piece maple neck
    Custom wood pick up covers
    18v Mike Pope preamp
    Nordstrand dual-coil pickups
    19mm string-spacing on bridge
    10.75 lbs

    Crazy-fast neck, feels sublime under the hand. "Piano-like" low B-string doesn't begin to cover it. Bass is in 'good' to 'very good' condition (I know how picky folks can get around boutique/high-dollar instruments like this). There is some play-wear, but nothing I could easily capture on-camera. Bass was Plek'd by Mike Lull in 2016, and is currently strung with black LaBella Tapewounds.

    Bass is $10k+ new from Vinnie hisself, or you could get mine 2 years sooner and $2k cheaper.

    Beat-to-hell Fodera teardrop hard case included. More pics available upon request.

    No shipping outside of CONUS. Sorry Canadians/fans of fine instruments on the rest of the planet, blame the CITES people.

    Price includes shipping (in the CONUS only). I accept payment through Paypal, Bitcoin/Ethereum, or US Postal Money Order.

    [1]: The Fodera build-sheet says "Kingwood". Various sites around the 'net classify Kingwood as a Dalbergia species from Brazil, which mean it is regulated under CITES (and therefor I won't be shipping this bass outside of the CONUS). In my book, this is a purely academic distinction. In yours, perhaps not. The bass is what it is, and it's for sale. You buyin'?

    Kingwood | The Wood Database - Lumber Identification (Hardwood)

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  2. rickster4003


    Feb 15, 2013
    Very nice! Out of my price range but always happy to give a free bump for a Fodera!
    sleeplessknight likes this.
  3. GOTBASS2016

    GOTBASS2016 Guest

    Jul 25, 2016
    Very nice pics! And because of the great pics I can tell that the fret board is most likely kingwood! Might need to reaffirm with the great Guys at Fodera ! GLWTS!
    KUETSUM likes this.
  4. sleeplessknight

    sleeplessknight Supporting Member

    Mar 8, 2002
    Thanks for that. I do believe it IS Kingwood, but as Kingwood is a Dalbergia species originating from Brazil, that makes it a Rosewood and therefor regulated under CITES. See:

    Kingwood | The Wood Database - Lumber Identification (Hardwood)

  5. Erithon

    Erithon Supporting Member

    Apr 2, 2018
    Beautiful bass! And you are quite right that Kingwood is a Dalbergia and therefore regulated by CITES. But not all Rosewoods harvested in Brazil are Brazilian Rosewood (Dalbergia nigra). Kingwood is a different species entirely: Dalbergia cearensis. Given Fodera charges a $1000 upgrade for fingerboards made from D. nigra, it's probably a good idea to amend your listing so readers aren't misled :)
    libanass likes this.
  6. sleeplessknight

    sleeplessknight Supporting Member

    Mar 8, 2002
    I'll amend the listing to be more clear, but the Wood Database says that Kingwood "is a true Rosewood" and the handful of woodworkers I've asked about the matter have said that it is not misleading to call it a Brazilian Rosewood.
  7. guns5


    Oct 11, 2009
    sleeplessknight likes this.
  8. libanass


    Oct 16, 2009
    I have Kingwood fretboard on my Monarch as well, it's tonally brilliant.

    Visually, I almost fail to see the difference with rosewood, it looks very similar with Indian Rosewood. Or at least, my sample is a lot less reddish than yours! There is a tiny bit of red in one corner, that's all.
    However, Brazilian on the other hand, I don't know, I think Brazilian has more textures to it, but I've never seen one IRL

    Anyhow, I do agree it's misleading to call it Brazilian
    Brazilian is a 1500 USD feature with Fodera, Madagascar is 750 USD (still a very expensive wood though!)
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
    sleeplessknight and Erithon like this.
  9. libanass


    Oct 16, 2009
    Interesting facts on Fodera's woods page:

    Brazilian Rosewood
    Very even and nuanced fingerboard that caries high frequencies very well. Cannot be sold to customers in the European Union due to CITES regulation.
    Very similar tonally to Brazilian Rosewood. Though it is CITES regulated, this material is allowed within the European Union and is a great alternative to Brazilian RW.

    That said, you can't go wrong with Kingwood, I do find it's overall a superior fingerboard to Indian rosewood and is one of the most expensive fretboards you can order, right after Brazilian!
    sleeplessknight likes this.
  10. sleeplessknight

    sleeplessknight Supporting Member

    Mar 8, 2002
    I swear, everyone on the Internet turns into some combination of a botanist, arborist, lawyer, and customs official on this topic. in particular :laugh: Y'all are welcome to call it whatever you want. I've modified the ad with the build-sheet information so people can make a fully-informed purchasing decision, but I personally am still going to call "a rosewood that originates from Brazil" a "Brazilian Rosewood", _especially_ since there is very little functional difference (per wood-nerd sites on the Internet and Fodera themselves). "If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck...", etc.

    I am still not shipping the bass outside the CONUS. While we may be having a wonderful time armchair-quarterbacking what is and is not a "real" rosewood, I'm not trusting an $8k instrument to the whims of whatever customs-official it encounters between here and East Jabip. If they're a wood enthusiast with all the time in the world to argue on the Internet, they may be in the mood to educate themselves on the minute differences between Dalbergians and be swayed by the passionate intersection of ego, art, opinion, and commerce that is the CITES regulation. If they're not, they may just say "Rosewood? From Brazil? Mine now." I don't need that kind of stress in my life, and I'm confident the future buyer doesn't either.

    Trainspotters, you've won. The build-sheet wood is in the ad. Please refrain from commenting further. If you absolutely must win additional Internet-arguing points, feel free to DM me so we're not cluttering up my FS ad.
    bassarama, jkumnick and libanass like this.
  11. libanass


    Oct 16, 2009
    Ah, I thought Kingwood used by Fodera is Madagascar Kingwood!
    But I guess they do use Brazilian ones too!

    Beautiful instrument, good luck with the sale ;)
    sleeplessknight likes this.
  12. speyer

    speyer Supporting Member

    I'm gonna call this THE nicest looking Fodera I've ever seen. For realz.
    dpbass66 and sleeplessknight like this.
  13. bassarama

    bassarama In Memoriam

    Sep 14, 2006
    FYI and to other members here on this forum. As of Wednesday last week the CITES council decided to repeal the Rosewood ban as it's intent was not to harm the sale of already made instruments (tens of millions of dollars lost as a result of the 3 year ban). The LOBBY GROUP on behalf of musicians and luthiers were successful. However the sale of raw rosewood will still be subject to CITES regulations and enforcement

    To good to be true .

    Google it.

    speyer and sleeplessknight like this.
  14. s_wood

    s_wood Gold Supporting Member

    Mar 23, 2003
    Delaware (USA)
    The above post is only partially correct, and sadly it is too good to be fully true, so caution is advised!

    The CITES treaty will be amended to exempt finished musical instruments or finished musical instrument parts or accessories containing all species of rosewood (dalbergia) except Brazilian rosewood from its coverage. The amendment won’t be in effect until the end of November, 2017. And nothing has changed with Brazilian rosewood; the international sale of instruments containing Brazilian rosewood is still prohibited and there are no plans to eliminate that ban. However, all of the other dalbergia species, including rosewood (except Brazilian), bubinga, kingwood,tulipwood and cocobolo) will be exempted when they are part of a finished musical instrument.

    See this thread for more, especially the last 3 or 4 pages.
    CITES - What every bass player should know
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
    sleeplessknight likes this.
  15. sleeplessknight

    sleeplessknight Supporting Member

    Mar 8, 2002
    I figure it's going to take at least a few years for all the various agencies involved to get trained up to the new standard. I am still not shipping THIS instrument internationally because of that, although I do appreciate folks' updates on the current state of the regulations.
    s_wood likes this.
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