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210 cab on top of 215 cab (all vertical alignment)?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Gatlin, Aug 31, 2017.


  1. Gatlin

    Gatlin

    Sep 22, 2016
    Ellisville, MS
    So I've read the many posts about combining speaker sizes and ohms and vertically stacked speaker arrangements. I have a slightly different take on the setup though.

    I have a vertical 215 cabinet (4 ohm) and a 210 cabinet (8 ohm). Right now I run either cab one at a time through a 2 channel rack mount eq into a 2 channel power amp. If I were to run both cabinets at the same time I could sit the 210 cab vertically on top of the 215 cabinet. The 210 cabinet would be in one of the channels of the eq and one side of the power amp. I could then run the 215 cabinet through the other channel of the eq and the other channel of the power amp. This setup would allow me to eq and power each cabinet differently. I haven't tried this yet and may do it just for the fun of it.

    Would the typical concern of mismatching cabinets apply in this scenario?
     
  2. Yes vertically align the cones. Yes the concern will still be there.
     
    kap'n kro likes this.
  3. Rick James

    Rick James

    Feb 24, 2007
    New Jersey
    If you're going to use mixed cabs having separate EQs and power amps is the way to do it. It will take some experimentation to find what settings work best.
     
    BadExample, wave rider and johnpbass like this.
  4. Powering each cab from a separate amp (or amp output channel) alleviates some of the problems involved in mixing cabs.
    When they get their own power from separate sources you are less likely to have one cab hold back another due to technical differences like impedance or power handling. And with separate EQ on each, it seems you are well on your way to having a nice power stack going on.
     
  5. Gatlin

    Gatlin

    Sep 22, 2016
    Ellisville, MS
    Thanks for the input so far. I already have all the pieces for this setup so it's not like I have to actually purchase anything to make it happen. It had never really crossed my mind until we played an outdoor event this past weekend. We had plenty of FOH reinforcement (4-18" professional quality subs plus line array tops) and I used the 215 cab on stage and left the 210 at home. The 215 was really plenty loud, but the bass player in me just thinks.....why not even more? haha.
     
  6. Y not more comes in play moreso indoors. Lows get messed up when stage bass competes with FOH.

    What you plan is a kind of poor man biamp. A true biamp would have only low end from the big cab and high end from the 210.

    Consider that Billy Sheehan gets grief from soundguys over his biamp setup. You might want to do it for fun on little gigs with vocal PA but the fun goes out of it taking 20 min to soundcheck the bass for FOH.
     
    Pbassmanca likes this.
  7. Coolhandjjl

    Coolhandjjl Supporting Member

    Oct 13, 2010
    Appleton
    Please please don't send highs to the 2x10 cab and lows to the 115 cab. True bi-amping is not done like that, and you will wind up with too much effort providing what might amount to a mess.
     
    Al Kraft and Old Garage-Bander like this.
  8. Gatlin

    Gatlin

    Sep 22, 2016
    Ellisville, MS
    Well, I also run the FOH and we don't allow amps onstage in doors. We run all in ears when in doors (it's for church use). This past weekend we did an outdoor event at a college with a really nice FOH setup. I'm not sure that anything I had on stage would have really impacted the FOH support. We actually all ran in ears during the outdoor event, but myself and the lead guitar player both had amps on stage. He wanted his amp for the tube sound which I get (we just don't allow it in the church building -- just too loud). I wanted my amp just because I was so far away from FOH that I couldn't really feel the subs like I normally do inside. Indoors I typically can feel the subs enough that the in ears work great. I'm only about 6 feet behind a sub on stage which works well for me.

    Again, I don't see where I'd necessarily need the 210 and 215 cabinets going at the same time, I just wondered if the general mismatched cabs, phasing, and combing issues that I've read about would still come into play. Thanks.
     
  9. 9Thumbs

    9Thumbs

    Jul 3, 2013
    Near Boston
    I sit an Ampeg SVT 410 cab right on top of an Ampeg SVT 115 cab. They are both a little weak on their own. The 410 would need the bass knob turned up if used by itself and the 15 needs upper mids and brights bumped up to sound right, but together they sound great. You guys worry too much about physics and the science of sound. If it sounds good, it is good. Try your rig out any way you can think of.
     
    Pbassmanca and Lvjoebass like this.

  10. How is this not true bi-amping? How is "true" bi-amping done if it isn't using separate amps for high and lows? Whether or not it's worth the effort will only be revealed when it is given an honest test under gig conditions.
     
    Nev375 likes this.
  11. Coolhandjjl

    Coolhandjjl Supporting Member

    Oct 13, 2010
    Appleton
    True biamping uses an active crossover, not an EQ. True bianping uses cabs designed to cover the frequency range they're being fed, not stand alone cabs.
     
    RSBBass, Al Kraft and smogg like this.
  12. Al Kraft

    Al Kraft Supporting Member

    May 2, 2016
    Northern Virginia
    This is my understanding as well. My SWR SM400S works this way and the GK HMS (bi-amping within one cab if you will) on the RB series works this way too.
     
    Coolhandjjl likes this.
  13. walterw

    walterw Supportive Fender Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 20, 2009
    alpha-music.com
    it's a 2x15 cab, so the relative sizes of the two cabs might make actual biamping at least feasible and maybe kinda fun.

    still not a great idea as a 2x15 bass cab is not a sub, but crossing it over or even "ghetto-styling" it with a couple graphic EQs, mids and highs knocked off the 2x15 and lows knocked off the 2x10 might at least make for a loud result that doesn't blow anything up.
     
    BadExample likes this.
  14. Tim Skaggs

    Tim Skaggs

    Sep 28, 2002
    Vertical stacking is the best configuration for what you are doing with the two cabs. Phil Lesh's live rig had some acoustic science involved in the configuration & the result is definitely all about "vertical"

    IMG_0011.
     
  15. Verticality between the 15's and the 10's doesn’t enter into the equation when sufficient EQ separation is applied.
     
  16. chris_b

    chris_b

    Jun 2, 2007
    If you have all the components of this rig don't ask us (you'll only get the usual rehash of opinion), just do it and tell us how it worked for you.
     
    BadExample, Pbassmanca and ficelles like this.
  17. YES!!! Then please post a YouTube video so we can see and hear it. It sounds like a brilliant idea.
     
    BadExample and Pbassmanca like this.
  18. ficelles

    ficelles SUSPENDED

    Feb 28, 2010
    Devon, England
    Correct. Ignore theory and opinion, plug and it up and play through it and see if you like how it sounds. I wouldn't even bother too much about eq-ing the cabs overly differently to start with.
     
    Al Kraft likes this.
  19. Robb Fesig

    Robb Fesig

    Mar 14, 2015
    Pennsylvania
    If the EQ is digital, you could introduce phase alignment issues between the "lows/highs".
    This may or may not work to your favor.

    Try it, if you like it, then it works. If you don't like it, then it doesn't.
    But don't fall into the trap of thinking it sounds good if you're not using it with a band though. I tried a similar rig with an actual DBX crossover, and it sounded good at home, but with a band mix it got buried because of phase alignment issues in the low mids.
     
  20. Rick James

    Rick James

    Feb 24, 2007
    New Jersey
    Destructive phase interactions occur mainly in the mids and highs, so to minimize them I'd turn down the mids and highs going to the fifteens. Since the tens aren't real midrange speakers and might handle lows just as well as the fifteens there might not be any advantage to turning down the lows going to them, that he'd only find out by trying.
     
    BadExample likes this.

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