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210 in the monitor position

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Brown Shark, Jul 29, 2005.

  1. I have been thinking of running a 210 on stage in the monitor position (in front of where I stand, angled upwards), to get some more clarity in my sound. This would be in conjunction with my 410 behind me in the standard backline position. Does anyone else run a 210 like this, or have tried it, or have an opinion on how this would go?
  2. chaosMK


    May 26, 2005
    Albuquerque, NM
    Hi-fi into an old tube amp
    I've never done this. In larger venues I am usually loud enough to project pretty strongly on the stage. Maybe in a smaller place or one with bad accoustics I would consider using the 2x10 part of my rig as a monitor.
  3. I use an ampeg BXT210M for my onstage monitoring. This lets me hear myself good and lets me place the stack elsewhere if it doesn't fit behind me. Also, our band doesn't have any monitors capable of making a good bassline come out of it.
  4. I've been intending to do the very same thing! I tried out one of those ampeg monitor cabs and it was pretty cool - doesn't handle the lows really well, but then again its only a monitor ...

    I think it will make for a sweet onstage sound - esspecially for those of us whose amps go down to 2 ohms and are only running them at 4 ohms currently - the monitor cab makes for a nice addition...
  5. Jack


    Sep 6, 2003
    Newcastle, UK
    Ashdown, Eden and Ampeg (probs more) make cabs for this purpose, but to me it would make sense to just get a good pa monitor and run that from your bass amp, that way its a better aproximation of you PA sound.

    You could even get a powered monitor if you had no more 'impedance room' (TM) on your amp. :)

  6. cheezewiz

    cheezewiz Supporting Member

    Mar 27, 2002
    I have a friend who does this. He's in a band where the other members constantly bitch the bass is too loud, so he has to turn his rig down to a point he cannot hear himself on stage. He added an ampeg 210 in the monitor position, and although his band members are still bitches, he can hear himself now!
  7. permagrin


    May 1, 2003
    San Pedro, CA
    Be aware of phase problems if you have two cabs facing each other.
  8. funky_bass_guy

    funky_bass_guy Guest

    Jul 30, 2004
    Thats whats stopping me from doing it right now, anyone able to clear up the phase issues?
  9. cheezewiz

    cheezewiz Supporting Member

    Mar 27, 2002
    Sit the monitor cab to your side, facing you, rather than in front of you, facing you.
  10. funky_bass_guy

    funky_bass_guy Guest

    Jul 30, 2004
    Thanks :) or I guess I might put it on top of my 4x10 and amp vertically, ought to be near my ear then, plus I prefer not having anything in front of me.
  11. How does changing the angle of the monitor cab cancel/increase phasing? I dont really understand phasing with amps/cabs etc.
  12. PhatBasstard

    PhatBasstard Spector Dissector Supporting Member

    Feb 3, 2002
    Las Vegas, NV.
    You want all your speaker cones moving the same direction at the same time. If you have two speaker cabs facing opposite directions the cones are moving in opposing directions and you will have frequency cancellation (thin sound) in most places on the stage where both cabs can be heard. I once bought a 4x10 cab cheap that they thought was toast. Turns out a replaced speaker was hooked up backwards which made it out of phase with the other three. Switched it and the cab worked perfectly.

    Puting the cabs at 90 degrees to each other (i.e. your 2x10 wedge to the side) would pretty much eliminate this problem. If you really want it facing you at the front of the stage you could switch the leads on one end of the speaker cable you're running to the wedge. This would put it back in-phase with your rear cab, but if you are still running any bass in the vocal monitors they would now be out of phase with your bass wedge.
  13. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    But they're not. One is firing throught your legs, the other is firing towards the ceiling. The point of intersection of the sound waves is way above your head. There can't be any phase cancellation unless the soundwaves meet.

    I ran a setup like this way for years. At one stage I even had a full stack (15+410) behind me, plus a 15+210 wedges in front of me. Damn that was a loud band! No noticable phase issues whatsoever.

    It was a good setup for big stages. The wedges means you're always standing the same distance from your speakers, so your sound is consistent between big and smaller stages.

    Smaller stages are a problem though, only because it can be difficult to find somewhere to put the wedge.

    It's also a great setup for echoey or boomy rooms!
  14. Wow, this all sounds like a soundman's nightmare come true. Why not use your stage rig (behind you) as your monitor, and let the PA do the work out front?

    Latest gig I played wasn't any quieter than previous ones, but I used my Mesa Scout, turned up to maybe 3/10. The PA did the rest, I could hear myself since that was my monitor.

    It freaks me out to see a big stack behind a guy with a smaller stack in front. I really don't see the benefit. Stage volume should be kept as low as possible.
  15. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Believe it or not, the smaller stack in front of you DOES reduce the overall stage volume. That's the whole point of the exercise, at least it was for me. I was sick of the stage amps overpowering the PA. The bass wedge meant I could hear myself and therefore didn't have to run the rig behind me so loud.

    Even now that my bands are more reasonable with the SPL, I'm not affraid to have my rig positioned so it's not pointing towards the crowd. The sound guys love it. It gives them more control.
  16. nemo


    Mar 19, 2004
    Shark, while you probably love your ABM, have you thought about trying more articulate head? Maybe just borrow it for one gig to see if it makes any difference.
    Or maybe just cut its very wide and deep bass and add mids.
  17. johans

    johans G.U.I - Groovin' under influence

    Oct 28, 2004
    the Bay Area, CA
    how much are those bxt?
  18. cheezewiz

    cheezewiz Supporting Member

    Mar 27, 2002
    You obviously don't play with my guitarist.
  19. Jack


    Sep 6, 2003
    Newcastle, UK
    A lot of people dont regularly play with PA support. Ive only used my amp as monitor for one gig. Usually the FOH work is split between the PA and my amp to various degrees, occasionally its my amp only. Hence the full stack. :smug:

  20. I got mine new for $550.

    Here's the specs if you don't have them.

    Freq Resp: (+/-3db) 45Hz-18kHz
    Usable low Freq (-10db) 38Hz
    RMS power handling 400@4ohms
    Peak 800@4ohms
    Sensitivity 99db SPL 1w/1m