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2x GS112 vs. GS112 + Low B2W

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Jeff Moote, Jun 17, 2002.


  1. Jeff Moote

    Jeff Moote Supporting Member

    Oct 11, 2001
    Beamsville, ON, Canada
    I'm going to get a couple cabs this summer, and I was considdering the two GS112 setup, because it would handle low end fine, and have good mid response while staying light and portable.

    Now, I'm thinking that I may go for an ACME Low B2W to replace one for bigger bottom end. I'll likely be powering this with a Carvin DCM 1000, so before, I was thinking 350w per GS112, which is only 50w above their rating, good. Now with a GS112 and B2W, I could get the Acme in 4ohm so it gets more power, and run the two channels separately instead of bridging. The GS112 would get 225w and the Acme would get 350w.

    Acmes are power hungry, would 350w be enough compared to the 112 to match it in volume?

    Overall, which setup do you think is better?
     
  2. Golem II

    Golem II

    Jan 4, 2002
    Macon, GA, USA
    I've got an Aguilar 112, and I'm beginning to suspect that these cabs don't work so well when used alone. If you're in a situation where you don't want to lug both cabs, you might wish you had a full range Acme instead of their "sub"-type speaker. If you just got a low b2, you could take it and leave the Aguilar at home for practice and smaller gigs, and maybe bridge your poweramp into the Acme (which just might give it the power it needs.)
     
  3. Golem II

    Golem II

    Jan 4, 2002
    Macon, GA, USA
    Also, I just realized that the dimensions of the low B2 would make it impractical to stack the Aggie on top of the Acme. You'd want to put the Aguilar on top for highs, but it's deeper than the Acme so it could topple over.
     
  4. brianrost

    brianrost Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 26, 2000
    Boston, Taxachusetts
    Like all small cabinets, there is a limit to the volume you can get out of them (Acmes are no different, in fact they can be worse in this regard). You get seduced by the big sound and small size but some people seem to think it's an 8-10 or something :rolleyes:

    I used to bring a 1-12 to a blues jam I host (at various times Genz Benz, Epifani and Bergantino) and I always found it plenty BUT the jammers always wanted to turn it up, up, up...so I went back to a trusty EV 15 which is nice but no longer my favorite and let the meatheads crank all they want.

    As a former Acme owner, if I was going to bring only one cab I'd bring the Aguilar, WAY more efficient. You'd need 2 to 4 times the wattage to get an Acme 2-10 as loud.

    All in all, I'd stick with the 2 Aguilar idea.
     
  5. FWIW I run my DCM1000 bridged into my 2 GS112s. They sound great and this rig is plenty loud without breaking a sweat. I've also bridged the amp (700W @ 8 Ohms) into only one cab and it sounded great. So what I'm saying here is that you tone will improve if you take advantage of the extra headroom bridging the amp will provide.

    Good Luck!
     
  6. Golem II

    Golem II

    Jan 4, 2002
    Macon, GA, USA
    I just meant as compared to other 1x12's (epifani, bergantino, etc.) I've heard that a solo Aguilar seems kind of power-hungry and thin-sounding next to a solo Bergantino.
    I hear that they work much better in pairs, and that a pair of Aggie 112's tends to sound better than one Aguilar 112 paired with any other type of speaker.

    Anyway, assuming your poweramp already has more than enough (possibly too much, if there is such a thing) wattage for an efficient 1x12, what's wrong with bringing a cab that can handle a little more power? I mean, assuming you have a 4 ohm acme low B2, couldn't you drive it with, say, a QSC PLX 1602 in bridge mode? I know these cabs need a lot of power, but I don't see how 1600 watts could be inadequate, even for loud rock music.
     
  7. Well I definitely agree that 2 Aggies sound better than one. What I'm getting at is if you run one cab per side of the DCM1000 you only get 350w. IMO my tone is clearer if I bridge the amp and get all that headroom. I have no experience with the Acmes though.
     
  8. Golem II

    Golem II

    Jan 4, 2002
    Macon, GA, USA
    sorry, I was replying to Brianrost before you made that post and you managed to hit the "send" button before me.
     
  9. Jeff Moote

    Jeff Moote Supporting Member

    Oct 11, 2001
    Beamsville, ON, Canada
    Thanks, I wanted to hear from someone w/2 GS112s and similar power. That's likely what I'll do, but what about the bass, does it put out? I mean, I'll be playing a 5er, often with lots of bass from deep filters and octavers... so can it do it?
     
  10. MontyP,

    My main bass is a Wal Mach III 5 string. The B string sounds great (to me at least). Very full sounding. You might want to check out some specs on the Aguilar website though. The GS112s frequency range is somewhere around 40Hz-16kHz.

    Jeff
     
  11. Monty P, I'm still trying to decide if I need an Acme Low B-2 for my wee "econo-dub." Saounds like we will both be using deep filters and synths...? I wrote Andy and asked if he thought this would be OK with a B-2 and he said this;

    So...does this mean his Acme cabs a *different* than other cabs in their ability to handle deep filters and synths or is he just being cautious as would any manufacturer? I mean...I use these things all the time with no problems?? Is a B-2 off limits to us do you think?
     
  12. brianrost

    brianrost Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 26, 2000
    Boston, Taxachusetts
    It might not be inadequate but you do risk blowing the cabinet :rolleyes:

    It's only rated at 350 watts RMS, so giving it 1600 watts is dangerous unless you can make sure you back off the volume if you hear ANY distortion. Yeah, I'm sure a bunch of Acme owners (I used to be one) will chime in about how they do this all the time, etc.

    Personally, I'd add another cab rather than crank that much wattage into one.

    Golem, have you actually had a chance to try an Acme? It is really an incredible speaker, but for loud rock music a single 2-10 (of any kind) is not a great choice. At some point to get high volume you really want to have more cone area.
     
  13. brianrost

    brianrost Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 26, 2000
    Boston, Taxachusetts
    ANY ported cabinet has a steep rolloff in response after the -3dB point. Although in theory you can use EQ and more power to extend response into lower frequencies, in reality all you do is push the cone past it's excursion limits and blow the speaker.

    Cabinets that seem to work OK with such low frequencies are either not ported (horn loaded or infinite baffle), are tuned even lower (unlikely) or just roll off at an even higher frequency.
     
  14. Well heck, all my previous cabs were ported and sounded fantastic with a little DBX 120XP, DOD FX25, EBS octaver...etc. I shouldn't have any problem running these *enhancements* with a B-2 if I haven't ever B4...right?? I've used Eden D212XLT's, D210XLT's, Mesa RR's and now my excellent EB-MM HD212's...all sound great with no "bottoming out." Tell me I'll be fine.....
     
  15. Golem II

    Golem II

    Jan 4, 2002
    Macon, GA, USA
    Sure it's rated at 350w, but even Acme's website recommends something more in the area of 500 watts. This aspect of amp/cab pairings has always confused me, since there's so much debate as to whether it's better to give a cab more or less power than it's rated for. What's the maximum amount of power you could safely pump into those cabs?

    Also, I haven't tried an Acme but for a stand-alone practice rig I've been using either an Aguilar GS112 or an Eden 210XLT. The Eden was too heavy, but plenty loud (just a lot of midrange and not enough low end.) The Aguilar is easy to carry, but to even hear it during practice I have to elevate it and sacrifice the bottom end. I was considering the Acme as a compromise between them, hoping it's easy to carry but loud enough for rehearsal, and at gigs it can handle the low end in a stack while another speaker (maybe a single 12" or 15") takes care of the midrange.
     
  16. geshel

    geshel

    Oct 2, 2001
    Seattle
    To answer your original question, the Acme would require almost 10 times the power to reach the same volume as the Aggie (given the manufacturers' specs of 93dB and 102dB 1w/1m respectively).

    So, you'd probably need separate amps and a different gain channel for each.
     
  17. 44me

    44me

    Jun 17, 2002
    Bedford, NH USA
    I see a lot of posts about pairing up an Acme Low B with something else for the mids and highs. I was under the impression that Acme's design concept (a very successful one except for inefficiency) is that a three way allows for extended bass with a small cabinet AND a smoother midrange and treble. Is this not true in practice? I’d be inclined to just stack up a couple of B2’s. The DCM1000 will drive 1000W into 4ohms, bridged. Compared to the Aguilar’s, you’ll have about the same volume as if you ran 100W into them. I, myself, am looking at getting a GS 212. The Acme’s are interesting, but I don’t have quite so many watts to burn.
     
  18. chucko58

    chucko58

    Jan 17, 2002
    Silicon Valley, CA, USA
    I paid for all my gear myself. Well, me and MasterCard.
    If a speaker is rated for X watts continuous, you're best off driving it with an amp rated at 2X watts continuous. At least that's what the pro PA guys say.

    Why? Because music isn't continuous! There are attack transients and peaks all over the place. Typically you're looking at a ratio of 10 dB between the peak and average power levels. 10 dB = 1/10th power. So a 500 W rated amp that's clipping occasionally is typically pushing an average of 50 W for real-world signals.

    Bob Lee or the folks at www.prosoundweb.com can explain it better than I can.

    The above applies to thermal power ratings. The 300 W @ 31 Hz rating on the Low B-2 is an excursion limited rating. Drive it any harder and you can call Andy for a recone job. So watch those clip lights!
     
  19. Jeff Moote

    Jeff Moote Supporting Member

    Oct 11, 2001
    Beamsville, ON, Canada
    What, you don't want to bring 2 212s to every gig??? ;)

    How small do you want to go mad sub? a single 210?, because I do think he's just being cautious, you'd probably be fine as you have been with edens and your Musicmans... Do you run a compressor? if so, that would save your cabs a bit on those lows...

    ___________

    Nevertheless, ZoomBoy has comforted me enough with the GS112s, I'll likely go for them :D
     
  20. farboozle

    farboozle

    Apr 18, 2000
    Fairfax VA
    You won't be dissappointed . . .