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2x10´s. How loud?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by jock, Jan 23, 2003.


  1. jock

    jock

    Jun 7, 2000
    Stockholm, Sweden
    How loud and big gigs can you do with a single 210 cab? Im thinking of high quality cabs (Glockenklang, Wayne Jones, Bergantino, Hevos etc) used with a big poweramp.
    Im thinking of a Hevos cab that can put out 800W RMS and a 1200W Poweramp. Is that enough for loud clubgigs?
     
  2. To my ears, a 2x10 cab sounds loud but small. I would never use one without a good PA for re-enforcement.
     
  3. ...and only throw the low frequencies so far.
    Through long and painful experience, I've learned never to rely on a standalone 210 for any purpose other than stage sound. The lows drop off a few feet from the amp, so all the audience hears is twang, which renders you invisible in the overall sound.
    Front-loaded 15" speakers throw better, but if you plan on being heard without PA support, a folded-horn cabinet loaded with a 15" or 18" is the only way to fly.
     

  4. That is going to get you hanged around here ;) Most folks on here are anti-"big-speakers". As I go thru more and more cabs, I am realizing I am a Big-speakers kinda guy. I play 12's right now and may have found my sound. I want to try some BE and berg 15's to be more sure.
     
  5. Fuzzbass

    Fuzzbass P5 with overdrive Supporting Member

    What others have said. For awhile I was using a pair of 2x10 which got me through most gigs pretty well (even w/no PA support), but I'm even happier now that I have 2x10/2x12 available when necessary.

    I would recommend a single 2x10 (or 1x15 for that matter) for loud gigs only if the bass had PA support.
     
  6. FunkySpoo

    FunkySpoo Supporting Member

    Feb 6, 2002
    I think it all depends on how loud you need to be. In my blues band a single EA VL210 is usually enough. When we play the big ballrooms here in D.C. I bring a second VL210. I power them with a PLX 1602. No PA support ever. I've never had to turn up past half way and the tone is huge. I got rid of an Eden 410 XLT after I got these little babies. Now if I were in a heavy/death/prog/metal band than of coarse these wouldn't cut it. So how loud you need to be?
     
  7. Nick man

    Nick man

    Apr 7, 2002
    Tampa Bay
    Its not just a power handling and sensitivity issue, but also a surface area issue.

    Smaller speakers push less air, so it takes more of them to achieve a decent sound level.

    One 2-10 doesnt cut it in my loud rock band. I plan on getting another, or a 2-12.

    Peace
    Nick
     
  8. >That is going to get you hanged around here

    Ha ha, come get me. I'll be in the redwoods, boys.
    Seriously: We have a musical function to fulfill and laws of physics to obey, and small-diameter, twangy little speakers aren't helping us do either.
    If we want to remain relevant as Bass Players, we must play The Bass, no matter how little face time it gets us.
    Who's with me?
     
  9. Nick man

    Nick man

    Apr 7, 2002
    Tampa Bay
    Thing is bass apmlification manufacturers have found ways to take advantge of the laws of physics to build smaller more efficient speakers with a lower frequency range than large speakers.

    The old rules dont apply anymore.

    I used to be a 2-15 man myself.

    Peace
    Nick
     
  10. Fair enough...
    I don't claim to have tried every cab on the market, especially the newest boutique stuff I would be killed for even looking at, let alone bringing home, but I don't buy crap either. If I can't get a Mesa/Boogie 210 to throw lows more than a few feet, a Bergantino or Epiphani or whatever probably won't do _that_ much better. The speakers may go deep, but they won't project like a larger speaker, personal preferences in transient response side.
    I'm not trying to set rules here, but while manufacturers may be able to "take advantage of the laws of physics," they can't be broken.
    Go ask a soundman who knows his stuff...they tend to hate old-school cabs with long throws because they make it tough for the knob-turners to get a balanced house mix. In my experience, they love the newer designs because they rarely, if ever, project off the stage.
    But, of course, if you're running w/o PA support that's exactly what you want.
    KFS
     
  11. Trevorus

    Trevorus

    Oct 18, 2002
    Urbana, IL
    I think a 2-10 and a 1-15 would sound great, and fill most volume requirements.
     
  12. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    This may be true in theory but not in practice. I've got and Eden 2x10 which doesn't even come close to producing the same sort of throw or bottoms at volume of either of my 15's (JBL and ATC). I'd consider using a single 15 for a gig but not the 2x10.
     
  13. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    Funnily enough, I've had excellent results on PA-less gigs with my two Acme Low-B2 cabs, stacked to create a 4x1 array. This seems to focus the sound and project it down the room - it doesn't sound as big and bassy close-up but as you walk further away it really comes together into a deep focused tone.

    Alex
     
  14. ihixulu

    ihixulu Supporting Member

    Mar 31, 2000
    getting warmer
    Isn't "throw" really a misnomer though?

    Low fundamentals need a large distance to develop fully and it doesn't matter wether the wave is generated by an 18 or an array of 10's. Early on I played through 1 18 and kept cranking the bass eq on my head becasue all I could hear on stage was the mids. Meanwhile people in the audience were wondering why I wanted to sound like a big low woof.

    My Aggie 410 can fill a room with lows while still giving me a good idea of what my overall tone is like. Out in the crowd it is always more bassy. While I don't crank the bass as much, I still often have to negotiate with the soundguy regarding how much low end I can project.

    Big speakers are more efficient at generating the large waves but they don't change their physics.

    At least that's how I understand it.
     
  15. I have an Eden 210XLT and it's louder than quite a few 4x10" cabs on the market.

    That said, it's been my experience that most 2x10" cabs sound a bit thin below about 50Hz - so although I'll take a 2x10" alone for jamming with friends, for anything that requires a little more professional sound I like to reinforce the 2x10 with a 15" cab.
     
  16. j.s.basuki

    j.s.basuki Supporting Member

    May 14, 2000
    asia/australia
    Anything to do with EQ ing the amp?

    Has anyone tried how low and loud a single Wayne Jones 2x 10 cab can be ?;)
     
  17. Remembered that physics lesson as I was dropping off to sleep last night...d'oh!
    Stacking speakers in a column makes it easier for the speakers to generate a standing wave (correct term??), which boots your 45-foot sine waves waaaay out there. It also reduces coupling with the stage, so less of the note's physical energy is absorbed by the stage and more is projected.
    I think. I'm short on theory but long on practice.
    OK,
    KFS
     
  18. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Eq is a very powerful tool but speakers have their limits. We all seem to agree that 2x10's can be loud but lack the bottom end of a 15 or a 4x10. Refering to my Eden 2x10 again, if I try and dial in some bottem end eq at a decent volume, the speakers will woof more than what they're designed to. I can hear the speakers complaining, so I roll off the bottoms to protect the speakers.