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3015 full-range plus mid?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by kringle77, Aug 20, 2012.


  1. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    Massena NY
    This is more academic than anything else. If you ran an eminence 3015 (non-lf) full range so that you get a good bassic sound with some growl and natural break up, you would have a good sound that starts to beam at around 1khz and get worse. If you vertically stacked an 18sound 6nm410 over it, crossed over at say 1khz, would you gain the dispersion of the mid plus alittle more top end extension? Or would there still be some horizontal cancellation? I don't see why there would be. Just wondering.
     
  2. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    You'd gain just what you said there, topend extension and spread. Because the woofer is rolled out at 1khz, the character of the cab when pushed would be more voices to the 6's characteristics as far as breakup, etc. I suppose with the 15 still contributing some in the middle range.

    It would change the overall character/flavor of stuff like that and not just strictly response and dispersion.
     
  3. Mehve

    Mehve

    Jun 2, 2012
    Kitchener, ON
    As long as the x-over was set up right, all the frequencies at and above the 3015's "beaming point" should never reach the woofer in the first place.

    That's basically what a crossover does - it splits the frequencies so that the driver best suited is handling them. It's not that you can't get cancellations, but you won't see that happening until much higher frequencies, where even the mid begins to beam. Which is where 3-way units come into play.
     
  4. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    Massena NY
    I am specifically trying to figure out what would happen if you ran the 3015 fullrange and also the mid. The mid would only cover maybe 1khz and up. The 3015 would get a fullrange signal. I find this to be the only way that you really get that more traditional bass cab sound that so many of us like.
     
  5. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    Missed the part about keeping the woofer fullrange.

    There would undoubtedly be constructive and destructive interference where the 2 overlap. It would be strongest on axis, and the further you moved off axis, the more 6 and less 15 you'd hear in the topend.

    Whether or not that would manifest itself as a sort of "cool tone" is anybody's guess. The peaks and valleys in the interference area would certainly change with listening position, and it might only mean moving your head a foot or 2. So, one guy might be hearing the tone of the gods, while the guy standing next to him might be hearing something very different or vice versa.

    It would basically exhibit the same wierd stuff like that you get from mixing a bunch of different speakers together, but only in the middle range. The 15 would still basically be soloing the lows and the 6 soloing the treble.
     
  6. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    Massena NY
    Good points Will.
     
  7. lomo

    lomo passionate hack Supporting Member

    Apr 15, 2006
    Montreal
    So, Chris, you'd need 3 vertically aligned 3015LFs (one aimed straight and 2 at 45 degree angles, to get the dispersion) and then 2 more vertically aligned mid drivers.....

    (laughs diabolically) sounds like a new project for lab:bag::p
     
  8. craig.p

    craig.p

    Sep 28, 2008
    New Hampshire
    Hey lomo, ROFL, that sounds like a great idea for a new boutique cab company. One giant cab with all those drivers. They can call it the Kramemin full-range cab and find some fishbait bassist to endorse it.

    Or has that been done already.
     
  9. I have a pair of early EPI speakers on my desk. These are two way hifi speakers without a crossover. Their clarity in my experience is only surpassed by the single full range drivers like Lowthers.

    This would be an interesting experiment and for best results would require matching two drivers whose peak ranges do not overlap.
     
  10. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    Massena NY
    Nice Lomo. I may pass on that one.:) Not enough speakers in that cab!
     
  11. lomo

    lomo passionate hack Supporting Member

    Apr 15, 2006
    Montreal
    :p



     
  12. steve_rolfeca

    steve_rolfeca Supporting Member

    Not so sure that you'll get what you're expecting from the 3015. It's not like an old school, low-xmax JBL or EV 15.

    Instead of running it full range, it might be useful to do a search on the differences between the Eminence, Faital and 18Sound mid drivers.

    Zero experience with this, but other people report that when used with a conventional crossover, the Faital does a nice job of preserving the sound of an overdriven conventional cone driver.

    Roger Baer and the guys at LDS both have experience with the Faital, as well...
     
  13. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    Massena NY
    I've owned all 3 drivers but, it's been so long since I've heard a 3015 that I just dont' remember much about it. I'll have a 2x15 loaded with them soon enough. :D
     
  14. kraigo

    kraigo

    Jun 21, 2007
    Minneapolis, MN
    I've seen you post in the thread, but why not start with the Faital 15Pr400 that JohnK_10 used in http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/custom-diy-2x15-cab-build-854517/index29.html#post12980087?

    Keep the 15 and the mid close to each other in the baffle and vertically aligned to mitigate the interference as much as possible. The roll off of the woofer will be your ally. Use the small sealed chamber that the mid is in to roll off the low end where you want as an additional ally.

    Good luck.

    KO
     
  15. lomo

    lomo passionate hack Supporting Member

    Apr 15, 2006
    Montreal
    Mike Arnopol built me a composite Bassic 15 with the faital that sounds great, breaks up nicely......but won't demolish large office buildings like a 3015.
     
  16. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    I do remember Mike saying in another thread something along the lines of the Faital having a nice musical breakup, more akin to the old drivers and the 3015 sort of being just done when it reaches it's limits.

    Paraphrasing there, not a direct quote, but I got the impression the Faital might be the better way to go if you want that sort of pushed sound from making the speaker really work.
     
  17. lomo

    lomo passionate hack Supporting Member

    Apr 15, 2006
    Montreal
    Yeah-I told him I wanted meaningful, complex mid content, especially around 1K, and he recommended that cone. It's proving to be the perfect (for me) match for a 300 watt Walkabout. The 4 Ohm driver takes pretty much all the head's
    power and does well translating what I love about the Walkabout......in a sub 25 lb box I could throw if I wanted to :)
     
  18. kraigo

    kraigo

    Jun 21, 2007
    Minneapolis, MN
    I know that my needs are not the same as everyone else's, but my GB NeoX 212T will get loud enough to keep up with an unmic'd drummer, IME. At least for my own needs a pair of the Faitals would probably be plenty. Two 3015's would have a lot of potential that I'd never utilize.

    With respect and yes, YMMV.

    KO
     
  19. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    Massena NY
    yeah, that faital driver is awsome. Probably the nicest overall sounding single driver that I've heard. I really wanted to have the most powerhandling though, so I went with a pair of 3015's. I'll most likely have the cab next week. Don is going to drop ship me the drivers so that I can put low frequency noise to them and have them broken in when the cab arrives. The first time I plug it in, it should have it's true voice present. Can't wait. The question about adding a hi-passed mid to a a fullrange driven woofer really was just that, a question. I'll most likely really be happy with the 3015's after I crank the treble up on my amp.
     
  20. rpsands

    rpsands

    Jul 6, 2007
    Phoenix, AZ
    Try a guitar combo on top. :)
     

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