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310 versus 410

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Hollow Man, Jul 24, 2003.


  1. Hollow Man

    Hollow Man Supporting Member

    Apr 28, 2003
    Springfield, VA
    I am in the market for a 4x10 cab to complement my Eden WT-400. I'm buying used, so unfortunately I'm limited by what others are offering. I've been fortunate enough to find both a Bergantino 310 and an Epifani 310, and the reviews I've found about both cabs here on TB are encouraging. I'm wondering if users have found an appreciable difference between the amount of noise produced by either of these 3x10 cabs versus a high-end 4x10 cab (Eden, Aguilar, etc.) at a given volume. In other words, tone notwithstanding, and I losing much in the way of sonic power by going with a 3x10 over a 4x10? Whatever my choice is will (temporarily) be a standalone cab... no 15's to back these babies up just yet. Thanks for your help!

    As a smaller issue, what arrangements have you more experienced players made to compensate for the Epifani 310 having an impedance of 5.3 ohms? Cursed odd numbers....
     
  2. jerry

    jerry Doesn't know BDO Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 13, 1999
    Hawaii
    I have a Bergie 3/10 and I still have my old Eden410XLT.....the Bergie sounds better to my ears! You might need a little more power than the Eden 400 for the Bergie to really bloom tho..
     
  3. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    funny, but i was wondering the same thing.

    i'm debating whether to step up to an Epifani UL 4x10 or stick with my original game plan with the 3x10 UL.

    when i had my Demeter 3x10, i noticed it had about as much low end as a friend's SWR 4x10. but that Dem was a pretty special cab.

    hope some other guys with 3x10 experience can chime in.

    as for the impedence, most power amps handle it just fine, and from what i was told actually revert to 4 ohm load to compensate for the freakie 5.3 ohm load.

    my post prolly didnt help for crap, but i tried... :meh:
     
  4. Hollow Man

    Hollow Man Supporting Member

    Apr 28, 2003
    Springfield, VA
    Joker, anything a man of your experience can add is more than fine. The seller of the Bergantino claims that it's got 600 watt capacity, and since it's 4 ohms, I'd be pulling 400 out of my Eden head, so that is at least remotely close to the power specs. I was more wondering if using a 3x10 would sound notably quieter at a given power output versus a 4x10 (specifically an Aguilar GS410... another candidate for purchase). I know my head has limited power, so I don't want to go for something rated at too high a wattage (the Aggie's listed at 800 watts RMS). You 3x10 users, let me know what you think! ;)
     
  5. Carl Brusky

    Carl Brusky

    Sep 21, 2000
    I have a Bergie 310.

    You need serious power to make this thing come alive.
     
  6. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    I have an EA CXL-310 on the way (not that I really needed another cab... When it comes in, I can try and compare it to my Mesa Boogie Diesel 4x10 and see how it holds up.

    Tom.
     
  7. Eric Cioe

    Eric Cioe

    Jun 4, 2001
    Missoula, MT
    Is that EA 3x10 the tower one? Man, that's a cool looking cab.
     
  8. Hollow Man

    Hollow Man Supporting Member

    Apr 28, 2003
    Springfield, VA
    I didn't even realize EA made a 3x10 cab until yesterday, when I was putzing around on *gasp* another bass site (albeit an inferior one). EA doesn't appear to have it on their site, so should I assume it's been discontinued? If you all feel that the EA 3x10 exhibits the same quality sound as the other EA cabs I've seen talked about around here, I need to consider that sucker too.
     
  9. j_sun23

    j_sun23

    Feb 24, 2003
    Baton Rouge LA
    I just saw an EA 3x10 go for like $300-400 on ebay. sweet looking cab, really wanted it, but definately didn't need it. 100+ lbs too, no thanks!
     
  10. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    woah, now....

    an EA 3x10?!?!? when did this come about? is this a custom jobby?
     
  11. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
  12. Hollow Man

    Hollow Man Supporting Member

    Apr 28, 2003
    Springfield, VA
    Haha, I didn't realize that the concept of an EA 310 would cause such a stir. I've got that option available to me, along with an Epifani 410 and a Bergantino 310. I'm not so worried about cab quality at this point; I've read all the threads I can find on TB, and I don't think I can lose, no matter which one I go with. I just don't want to invest in a 3x10 cab over a 4x10 if it's gonna cost me appreciably in output power.
     
  13. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    I'm guessing that the CX-310 (no "L", my bad) is going to be awefully close to the same volume as a typical 4x10. The CX series are fairly efficient cabs, as is the Epifani T-310. At any rate, I wouldn't think that there would be a huge difference in volume with these 3x10's versus the typical 4x10. I will share the results of my tests next week when my new (to me) cab comes in.

    Tom.
     
  14. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Well, my CX-310 came in, and as far as volume goes compared to my Mesa Boogie Diesel 4x10, at lower volumes, the Boogie is definitely louder and more in your face. As I crank it up, though, it comes pretty darn close. The CX-310 has a good bit more high end compared to the Boogie (and also compared to my EA VL-series cabs), so it cuts really well and you can hear everything your hands are doing (even the bad stuff - I'm still working on a filter for that ;) ).

    But at any rate, it is almost as heavy as my 4x10, but since it is skinnier (all three 10's in a vertical "tower" arrangement) and has tilt back wheels and handles on both the sides and the back, it it a good bit easier to move around. The cab is rated for 900 watts, and like most EA gear, it can take a good bit more than that. I haven't tried it with my Walkabout yet to see how it does on lower power levels.

    BTW, the tweeter on this baby really amazes me! I would have thought that compared to the VL-210, which has two 5.25" mids and a tweeter, that the CX-310, which only has one (coaxial) tweeter, would not have had the same level of high mid and high end clarity and volume, but in practice, it is significantly brighter! It almost makes it sound like a VL-210 with an Epifani T-110 sitting on top!

    Now that I have so dang many cabs, it is ironic that I would find such a good "one cab does it all" kind of cab! Oh, but two CX-310 would be nice, too... :bassist:

    Later, Tom.
     
  15. wneff

    wneff Supporting Member

    May 27, 2003
    Woburn, MA
    Hi,

    another consideration when selecting a cabinet are expansion options. You mentioned that you may add a 15" later on. In this case you have to make sure that yo are not going below the minimum load of the amplifier.

    If you have two cabinets with an impedance (fancy word for load) of R1 and R2, and you run them in parallel, the total load the amp sees is:

    R=R1* R2/( R1+ R2)

    So, a 3x10 would most likely have 3 16 Ohm speakers in parallel (that is two 16 in parallel = 8 Ohm, in parallel with a 16 Ohm = 8 * 16/ (8+16) = 5.3 Ohm.

    If you put this parallel to a 15" with 8 Ohm you have 5.3*8/(5.3+8)=3.2 Ohm.

    You would need an amp with 2 Ohm load to be able to expand that 3x10.
     
  16. Here's my opinion FWIW...

    I own both a Epi 3x10 and a SWR Goliath III 4x10.
    The 4x10 does move more air "Louder" ( the physics is fairly obvious, surface area and all that) BUT the Epi 3x10 is plenty for most gigs and matched with a 1x15, parallel from power amp, it rocks. The tone of the SWR gets harsh with power, the Epi opens up.

    Size matters to me so I prefer carrying the 3x10 to the 4x10 ( like most of the guys, I double as my own roadie)

    Cons.. ohms matching and need for power. The Epi loves power and comes alive with enough juice. I hear the Berg is similar.

    'Sound' is in the ear of the beholder but I think most here would agree that the tone of the Bergie and Epi 3x10s are excellent.
     
  17. ZonPlyr

    ZonPlyr

    Apr 29, 2003
    Pasadena, CA
    I have an epi 3x10 and haven't really noticed a difference between it and a 4x10. I'm putting about 1100 watts into the epi and it sounds amazing.

    As for the 5.3 ohm thing, just treat it as a 4 ohm cab and you will be fine. I love the epi, especially coupled with the demeter pre (thanks again joker).
     
  18. Jerry J

    Jerry J Supporting Member

    Mar 27, 2000
    P-town, OR
    I just recently received my new T310 after the UPS fiasco. I'm still learning the ins and outs of it but it is a keeper. I also have an Aggie GS410 but I've been so busy this month I haven't had a moment to run the two cabs side-by-side.

    I've spent time comparing the Epi to my pair of Bergantino HT112's. Way different but I'm loving both set ups. :D

    The stuff that I've noticed right off the bat is that the Aggie does seem to have a bit more oomph but I attribute that to the extra speaker and the fact that the Aggie is hooked up to the PLX2402 and the Epi is hooked up to the 1602.

    I have been taking it easy on the T310 to break in the speakers before seeing what she's made of. From all indications I'm VERY HAPPY. Plus I love the size and weight compared to the GS410.

    I really think that you should at least try and play through each of the different cabinets that you are interested in. There are some differences that might be a plus or minus for you.
     
  19. Fuzzbass

    Fuzzbass P5 with overdrive Supporting Member

    The Berg HT310 is actually rated for 4 ohms. I don't know how that works with just 3 speakers.

    It does require some juice, though. My Ampeg SVT3Pro (400W+) could barely keep up at a gig. One channel of my Stew 2.1 (~700W) provided plenty of power in the same situation.
     
  20. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    np, bro!

    another satisfied customer... ;)