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410 not liking Drop C tuning?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Droog, Feb 21, 2005.

  1. Droog


    Aug 14, 2003
    Hey folks. I play in drop C on my P-Bass through a 400+ and a Mesa 410. The other night I turned it up a bit for this house party and noticed it farting out on me pretty bad. I assume its the cab not the amp. I think maybe its just not digging the low C. I switched from input 2 to input 1 on the amp and did not drive it as hard and it seemed to help, so I am not sure. Maybe I should get an additional cab, but I really don't want to haul around more stuff. What do you all think? Is a 410 adaquate? I thought it was, but now I am not sure.

    Thanks all!
  2. Geoff St. Germaine

    Geoff St. Germaine Commercial User

    I'm tuned like that in my band through an Epifani 410 and I have no farting. I'm pushing it with a QSC1602 bridged which gives it 1000W.

    How is your EQ set. If I had to bet, I'd say it is related to that. Specifically, are you using a lot of bass boost?
  3. Even though 400W should be enough to drive a 4x10 cab, I've been told that running a more powerful amp (eg 1000W) is actually "safer" for the drivers, coz 1000W can be run at, let's say 300W, without any square-waving --- while a 400W amp, running at say 300W, is working a fair bit harder, and the resulting signal will likely be "dirtier" and more difficult for the drivers to handle.

    ...not sure if that's correct, make sense to me tho...

    ...and also what the above poster said about EQ would factor into it - I've had issues when I up the low mids on my GK-800RB; (with less than adequate drivers tho)
  4. Geoff St. Germaine

    Geoff St. Germaine Commercial User

    This shouldn't be a big deal since the head he's using isn't solid state and doesn't clip in the same way.

    That said, if a 400W head is clipping when pushing a properly loaded 300W then there is something wrong with it.
  5. Droog


    Aug 14, 2003
    Yeah I fiddled around with the EQ, but I run it pretty much flat, very little if any adjustments. It just seems wierd, because I know I am not blasting the cabinet. I shall continue to mess around I guess.
  6. i myself also use the low C, and using a 4x10" (hughes&kettner) and a fender300ps. no flobbing, nothing. i first also used a h&k 1x15", but due to the power of the fender, i dont use it anymore.

    maybe your problem is in your bass, or in your strings... a normal E string can be a bit slobby when tuned in C, so i switchd to a 5 string set (.125) and i dont use the high one (tuned in C, F, A#, D#) and it sounds tight, loud and firm. (the strings are relevive tuned half a step up!, so nice and tight)
  7. protoz


    Nov 30, 2000
    My cab has been farting out on me quite a bit lately, especially last night at practice in a big wide open room that swallowed my sound, i had to crank it just to be heard and when I was heard my speakers were sounding horrible. I only had the amp at about 5 before it started crapping even though they are supposed to handle over 1000 watts (Hartke 5000 through an Avatar 410 Delta)

    No clue why it is doing this but I'm not happy about it.
  8. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    It happens because when a speaker gets fed frequencies that are significantly lower than the cab's tuning frequency, the cab and port lose their ability to control speaker cone movement. Ports do more than just let air escape. They also control the stiffness of the "air spring" inside the cab that helps the prevent the speaker moving too far and distorting.

    When the fequencies get too low, the speaker just flaps around uncontrolled and when it run out of suspension travel, it distorts.

    Typically, with 5+ string basses, 10" loaded cabs can be prone to this more than say 15's or 18's.
  9. Droog


    Aug 14, 2003
    So simply running an additional 15" is not really going to solve the problem unless the signal was split and I only sent the exteme lows to the 15 and not the 410. What is a solution when using a crossover is not feasable?

  10. lower the lows on your eq
  11. 4Mal

    4Mal Supporting Member

    Jun 2, 2002
    Columbia River Gorge
    I was just down your way. Sydney seems to be a great city but live music is in short supply down there! Great times though. Did the Coogee to Bondi walk and then Manley to Spit. Now if I can only recover from all the Lager ... back to the situps ...
  12. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    .... ahh memories. I used to live near Manly. Beautiful part of the world! You should have let me know you were coming. I could have shown you where to find the live music. Ah well, next time!

    Back to the question. You won't need to Bi-amp the 15 and 410. There will be a certain amount of natural frequency filtering going on anyway. By that I mean that the 15 will handle the bottoms better than your current cab so you may even be able to roll off some lows on the amp but still get a stronger sounding bottom end than you had before. At the same time, the 4x10 is getting fed a signal with the lows cut and should therefore deliver a nice punchy sound with no distortion. Together they'll provide a nice frequency spread.