410 on top of 115 or the other way round?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Jorgedcp, Mar 8, 2018.


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  1. Jorgedcp

    Jorgedcp

    Mar 14, 2017
    Hi everyone,

    I read a lot of threads about people hating this combination, and still just I got a Kustom Deep End head und the two mentioned cabs also from the same series (they are on their way to me) beacuse all I read about them was good, it seems like they are developed to match together very good in this combination. Also all the sound samples that I heard convinced me.

    So I know it is probably not the right place to ask and I will get a lot of "change that 115 for another 410" answers :). Still I will give it a try.

    Simple question: is it better to have the 115 on top of the 410 or the 410 on top of the 115?

    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  2. Stumbo

    Stumbo Guest

    Feb 11, 2008
    1x15 on top.
     
    SunnBass, pudgychef, esa372 and 9 others like this.
  3. Jorgedcp

    Jorgedcp

    Mar 14, 2017
    Thanks! Why? :)
     
  4. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    Which goes on top depends up what sounds best, how much power your amp has, and how loud you will play. Try each cab individually and compare them to each other. Next compare your favorite to running both cabs at the same time. I think there is a good chance it will sound best if you run one cabinet or the other, rather than both. It might be beneficial to run both if it produces extra volume.

    You have two 8 ohm cabinets. The 15 is rated at 250 watts and the 410 is rated at 400 watts. Given two 8 ohm cabinets in parallel, the total power delivered by the amp will be split evenly between them. If you amp is rated over 500 watts at 4 ohms you can easily destroy the 15. The 250 watt rating is probably a thermal rating, meaning the cab will not take the full power at low frequencies where excursion is high. Additionally, it's likely the 410 will be a bit more efficient than the 15. As a result, it may make little difference to run both cabinets at the same time. The common wisdom is to put the 15 on top under these circumstance, so you have a chance to hear it cry for help before you beat it into submission.

    The 15 should actually have better dispersion and less comb filtering than the 410 so the 15 might sound better up close to your ears.

    In the event you are running at power or volume levels that are well below the limits of the 15, put whichever one you think sounds best on top.
     
    Nashrakh, JGbassman, Sparkl and 5 others like this.
  5. I (occasionally) run a 4x10 and a 1x15 together. As Wasnex has said above - experiment! Try the 15 on top of the 4x10, then try the 4x10 on top of the 15, and see what sounds better to your ears, and the room/venue.
    Personally, I always have the 4x10 on top as I think it not only sounds better (1x15 on the bottom for the lows, 4x10 on top for the mids/highs) but I think it looks better too.
    YMMV of course! :)
     
    alaskaleftybass likes this.
  6. JRA

    JRA my words = opinion Supporting Member

    it's a crapshoot. play around with positioning until you find something you like.

    right vs. wrong arguments notwithstanding: every venue is different = a specific setup in one venue doesn't guarantee successful duplication in another.
     
    climber, Wasnex and saabfender like this.
  7. Unless you are bi-amping, it does not work that way. In fact, many 4X10's go lower and louder then 15's.

    ETA - And......if you are bi-amping, then you would only need a single 6-8" driver for the mids/highs instead of carrying around a 4X10.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  8. FunkHead

    FunkHead Supporting Member

    Mar 10, 2007
    I'd want the 15 up higher to hear if it starts to fart out. Unless the 4x10 is really crappy, the 15 will be the weak link.
     
  9. Nope, no bi-amping. And, as I said, it's just on the odd occasion I'll use two cabs. Mostly I use the 4x10 on it's own though I'll use the 15 on it's own for certain gigs.
    And besides, I like the way it sounds with the 1x15 on the deck and the 4x10 on top. To me, and my ears, that's the correct configuration.
     
    alaskaleftybass likes this.
  10. Jorgedcp

    Jorgedcp

    Mar 14, 2017
    Thanks everyone for the answer! I will try both options as you recomend.

    @Wasnex: short question... the amp is supposed to be 300W at 4 Ohn and 180W at 8 Ohm. In that case, with the cases being 400 W and 250 W at 8 Ohm, there should be no cofigurations possible in which the 115 would be endangered, is this right?
     
  11. GrapeBass

    GrapeBass

    Jun 10, 2004
    Toronto
    Graphic designer: Yorkville Sound
    I've always placed a 210 or 410 on top of a 115 and have rarely seen anyone else do otherwise.
     
  12. LeftyD

    LeftyD

    Feb 22, 2017
    Las Vegas
    15 on top because I like the look. It's in a closet so sounds best is out of the question.
     

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    TinyE likes this.
  13. BadExample

    BadExample

    Jan 21, 2016
    Injiana
    If both cabs are 8 ohm, the amp will think there's one 4 ohm attached, more or less.
     
  14. frankzelf

    frankzelf

    Jun 16, 2009
    Had a 410 on top of a 212, and was never satisfied with the result untill I placed the 212 on top of the 410.
    Tried the same with my Fender Neo 410 and 115, better result with the 115 on top of the 410, but best result with two 115's or two 410's!

    100 115.jpg
     
    Moosehead1966, saabfender and LeftyD like this.
  15. CosmicRay

    CosmicRay Supporting Member

    Well if you're determined to mix cabs of different sizes, one cab will be working harder than the other. Unless you're bi-amping.
     
  16. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Inactive

    I wonder how many more times this subject will rear it’s ugly head? I had thought this settled years ago!

    Look at the the power ratings of a typical 15 and 4x10. The 15 will be unable to match the performance of the 4x10. It will run into trouble before the 4x10 is even cruising along. Like as not the 4x10 will have better lows than the 15. For these reasons if you must, I suggest running the 15 atop the 4x10 so it’s closer to your ears and you will be able to hear it’s cries of pain better.
     
  17. 2F/2F

    2F/2F

    May 26, 2009
    Los Angeles, CA
    A couple of my thoughts on the matter:

    1. I doubt the difference will be appreciably heard in a real-world live mix (i.e. by the audience or you during the gig), so my decision would be mechanically based, not sonically based. In other words, I'd just put the harder to lift cab on the bottom.

    2. I would tend to treat those cabs as either-ors. I'd use the quieter one whenever it would do, and the louder cab when needed. I'm not sure adding the 4x10 to the 1x15 would give you a whole lot more than just using the 4x10 *instead of* the 1x15. I wouldn't see a whole lot of advantage to using both at once. Too much crap to haul for too little benefit.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  18. 9Thumbs

    9Thumbs

    Jul 3, 2013
    Near Boston
    I have Ampegs, an SVT 15E and an SVT 410HE. It sounds both clearer from my location and has better bass response with the 410 on top. Your cabs may be different, but since I play fretless and upright, I need to have a crisp sound right at my shoulders, not at the back of my knees
     
    GrapeBass likes this.
  19. 9Thumbs

    9Thumbs

    Jul 3, 2013
    Near Boston
    Oh, and I'd be deaf way before the 15 farted out.
     
  20. Treebeard

    Treebeard

    Jun 5, 2016
    Cary, NC
    Bear Light Symphony, TimepeaceNC Band
    Yeah you want the 15 as close to your ear as possible so you don't fry it.
     
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