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410 or 210

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Steve S, Mar 29, 2002.


  1. Steve S

    Steve S

    Jul 26, 2000
    I have the Ashdown MAG 400...400 watts with 4 ohms and 200 watts with 8 ohms. I have the Bag End S15 D but I like the sound of a 410 rig. Our band has two 18" subwoofers. I'm looking at the Carvin 410 with 8 ohms and the 210 with 4 ohms. Would the 210 give me the stage punch of a 410 and would it be louder because the Ashdown would be putting out 400 watts? The only thing that I don't like about 410 cabinets is their weight.
     
  2. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    Everyone is getting sick of me harping on this, but if you don't check out the Avatar cabs Link) (yes they do make 2x10 and 4x10's and other sizes also) for the money and built quality, your nuts for not doing the vs Carvin. These things cost less than the Carvin you are thinking about and will blow the doors off a Carvin. Everyone here has already commented on how the Carvin's are just "ok" but fart when driven hard, or with low notes. Even if you don't go with Avatar, go with somebody other than Carvin. Just MHO....

    Quad
     
  3. SlimT

    SlimT

    Feb 27, 2002
    Eden Prairie, MN
    Steve:

    One thing to keep in mind is the minimum rating for your head. You mentioned output at 8 ohms and 4 ohms. Is it rated at 2 ohms, or, is the minimum load 4 ohms?

    This will determine wether or not you can combine your bag end speaker (I'm assuming it's 8 ohm) with a 4 ohm cab.

    My small to mid sized club speaker setup is a 1x15 and a 2x10 - both 8 ohms. The cabs compliment each other quite well and and quite loud.

    For some reason, I think a 2 x10 balances better with a 15 than a 4x10. This may be my subjective inexperience speaking, though.
     
  4. Steve S

    Steve S

    Jul 26, 2000
    Quadzilla and SlimT,

    Thanks for the responses. The minimum load for my amp is 4 ohms. I'm trying to get the best possible combinations without having to carry too much weight. I was raised on 15 inch speakers but am starting to like the sound and punch of the 10's. Because we have the subwoofers with our PA, I probably only need to concentrate on the stage sound. If I go with the 210's, it would be an 8 ohm to combine it with the Bag End. However, what do you think about getting a 4 ohm 210 to get the most power out of my amp? Then I could sell the Bag End. Purchasing two 8 ohm 210's would also bring out the full power of the amp and would be easier to carry than one 410. For smaller gigs, I would only need to carry one cabinet. It's hard to make a decision without trying all of the combinations on a gig so I'm hoping to enlist the services of those people who have the experience with this kind of thing. Those Avator speakers look great for the price.
     
  5. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    Yeah and you can order them (including the 2x10's) in any ohms you like :). Hell he will even do em stereo is you want....
     
  6. SlimT

    SlimT

    Feb 27, 2002
    Eden Prairie, MN
    Steve:

    Going with a single 4 ohm 210 could well do the job for you. However, you may find that two 8 ohm 210s may give you more volume. I don't understand the physics, but, it's been said that to double your volume, you would need to increase your power by 10 times or double your speakers. The above example isn't that clear because we're comparing two 10" speakers at 200 watts each to four 10" speakers at 100 watts each. I'm sure someone on the board can do the math for ya.

    It took me awhile to find a 210 that I liked on it's own - that had enough bass response without harsh highs.

    Another thought too, is that having a 2x10 and a 15 gives you some definite voicing options you wouldn't have with a single 210 or two 210s. I know what you're saying about playing through a single 15. My first nice amp was an SWR WM 15. I loved the sound from that combo. Then, there are times when I like that punch of the 210 by itself. Options....gotta have options.
     
  7. You have that slightly confused. It takes 10 times the power to double the volume (that is, to increase the volume by 10dB). But doubling the power only gives you a volume increase of 3dB. Doubling the number of speakers gives the same result as doubling the power, a volume increase of 3dB, more or less.

    Mike
     
  8. or you could always go with the more power and more speaker solution :D
     
  9. Steve S

    Steve S

    Jul 26, 2000
    Thanks again for the help...I think I'll go with two 210's at 8 ohms each. I don't have to use both of them if the place isn't too big.
     
  10. SlimT

    SlimT

    Feb 27, 2002
    Eden Prairie, MN
    Mike:

    Thanks for the correction!

    Slim
     
  11. Steve S

    Steve S

    Jul 26, 2000
    One more thing....if the 410 is 4 ohms, will the amp be able to put more power into it? The Ashdown goes 200 watts at 8 ohms/400 at 4ohms.
     
  12. SlimT

    SlimT

    Feb 27, 2002
    Eden Prairie, MN
    Steve:

    If the 410 is 4 ohms, you get 400 watts, if it's 8 ohms, it gets 200 watts. It's much more simple when there is only one cab to deal with.

    Slim
     
  13. Steve S

    Steve S

    Jul 26, 2000