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Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by jazzbo, Oct 7, 2002.

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  1. jazzbo


    Aug 25, 2000
    San Francisco, CA
    Hello and welcome to Off Topic.

    As Talkbass grows and grows, and more and more members join, I think it’s important to revisit some of the guidelines of this forum, and to provide some information about the forum.

    Who are the Moderators of Off-Topic?

    Blackbird, john turner, JMX and Jazzbo are the four moderators of the Off-Topic forum. Remember, all moderators are moderators by volunteer, we give our time and energy to the site because we care about it, enjoy it or because we like to give something back to it. All of us are extremely receptive to feedback from all members.

    What topics should be posted in Off-Topic?

    Any discussions regarding music, even if it doesn’t pertain to the bass, belong in another forum. Moving a thread is not all that difficult, but this only behooves you. On occasion an OT moderator may miss your thread, not see it, and not be able to move it to the correct forum, which means you won’t get the responses to your topic you were probably looking forward to. Placing new threads in the proper forum helps you get the information you want.

    Rules and Guidelines

    As a member you are responsible for knowing, understanding and adhering to all of the FORUM RULES prior to posting. You will be held accountable. Following is a explanation, although not comprehensive, of how the rules and guidelines are interpreted for purposes of moderating.

    This is one of the most important guidelines in the forum. Talkbass is a disparate group of individuals. Members from Talkbass are from most every part of the planet. The part of that guildeline that reads “If you do not agree with a fellow member, be courteous in your reponse.” This rule will be taken very seriously. Always be respectful and kind.

    Moderators may issuing warnings to individuals breaking these rules. After warnings, understand that a temporary or permanent banning may be enforced.

    I, Jazzbo, have moderated this forum for many years, and I've seen friendships broken and enemies made because of disagreements. If you feel you've been wronged, DO NOT REPLY. PM or email a moderator to deal with the situation.

    Please remember that we have members that are young and some that are older. Obscenity is not permitted. Do not attempt to mask the obscenity. It is not allowed. I cannot be more clear on this. Also, inappropriate topics, (usually topics involving sexual situations or violence), will be moderated very closely. This is a family site. Further, many people view this site from a job, and inappropriate content could be grounds for disciplinary measures at many offices. People come here expecting to have adult conversations about the bass.

    Something that doesn’t seem offensive to you, very well may offend someone else. I’ve often said that if you think it would offend the pope, don’t type it. It’s never worth alienating a member because of something that you believe, that they may not. Remember when posting about anything, (race, religion, ethnicity, nationality, sexual orientation), that there is more than likely at least one person of that particular demographic at this site. Any thread that starts to inflame emotions will probably be closed.

    Also, sometimes threads may seem to be going along without a problem, but the content may be directly insulting to another member. If it risks hurting a member or angering them, the thread could be closed, edited, or deleted.

    This is self-explanatory. Any violation of this rule will be dealt with harshly. If I see any occurrence of personal attacks based upon race, ethnicity, religion, political views, sexual orientation, or anything of the like, I will STRONGLY and RUTHLESSLY push for PERMANENT BANNING.

    If you notice an edit to your thread, your post, or a deletion of a post, or a thread, PM the moderator of the forum. DO NOT QUESTION A MODERATORS ACTIONS IN PUBLIC. Questioning moderators in public is not tolerated and also will be dealt with seriously. Why? For one, we moderators do this on a volunteer basis, and we need the support of the community to help our job. There has never been a history at Talkbass of abuse of power, and if there is ever one, it would be dealt with by Paul, the site administrator. Second, and most important, questioning moderators in public can escalate situations that can be more easily handled in private. Remember, the moderators are open to your feedback, but it should always be done in private.

    Also, concern yourself only with your actions. Just because you may have been contacted about a post or thread, do not feel that you’re being singled-out. If a moderator contacts you regarding something, understand that that’s the only side of the picture that you see. That same moderator is more than likely also contacting someone else. So please do not use defenses like, “Well such and such said that,” or “Such and such is also violating the rules because…”

    Very self-explanatory. This community is based upon friendship and support. Any abuse of site privileges is highly inappropriate and will likely result in a swift and quick loss of membership.

    The site administrator will make all decisions regarding advertisements at this site. Do not post any threads that may be interpreted as spam or an advertisement. Moderators will delete this with impunity.

    A zero-tolerance policy is in effect for “trolls”

    Any member that posts with the intent to aggravate or antagonize will not be tolerated. An amazing aspect of this community is the members that go above and beyond the call of duty to keep this site running smoothly. Understand that not only will the moderators and site administrator deal with trolls harshly and quickly, but so do the members. Trolls, beware. You fight not just against efficient moderators, but also against dozens of members that help each other out in a truly symbiotic community

    IBTL: "In Before The Lock"

    I have a comment on "IBTL".

    Please don't do it anymore. If you know that a thread will be locked, why would you contribute to it.

    If I'm closing or deleting a thread, I may have to delete posts, and your "IBTL" will definitely be one that I delete. You won't bump up your post count, you don't seem cute or funny for doing it.

    In fact, here's the new rule. Don't do it. It creates mess and work for me and the other mods, and I would rather avoid that. So, if you do it so often that I keep thinking, "Wow, I've warned whoever about doing that, and I've seen him to continue to do that," than I'm gonna let you know you need to stop. If you're still doing it, then we're going to talk about you spending some time away from Talkbass.

    So, right here, right now, we're putting an end to "IBTL". Please.


    Thank you.
  2. john turner

    john turner You don't want to do that. Trust me. Staff Member

    Mar 14, 2000
    atlanta ga
    well, there's good news and then there's more good news, or bad news, depending on your point of view.

    the good news is i love all you guys, like you were my own family. happy valentine's day :D -smooch-

    and the more good news, or bad news, depending on your point of view, is...

    i've talked to paul, odie and jazzbo about ending political threads/discussions here at talkbass permanently. personally, as much as i have participated in a few in the past, i feel they have been very damaging to the community and need to go. jazzbo made a valiant effort with his guidelines for political threads, but they have been generally disregarded. sarcasm, disrespect and other more ugly emotions are integral parts of all of these threads, and it needs to stop.

    furthermore, two peculiar consequences of the prevalence of these threads have come to my attention. first, there's been an influx of folks who don't "talkbass" but rather "talkpolitics" - members who may have a couple or a handful of bass/music related posts, but perhaps a couple hundred posts all in 4 or 5 different political threads. is this really what talkbass is about? (rhetorical question).

    second, and much more disturbing to me, is the divisiveness i'm beginning to see and feel here in OT. i see folks posting who i respect and admire after years on talkbass interacting with them, and i see them turning on each other. i am beginning to not see "bassists" when i check out these threads, but "communists", "fascists", "republicans", "socialists", and other "ists" that i don't even care about. again, i ask, is this what talkbass is all about?

    this site is for talking about bass. off topic is an essential and important aspect of this site, it gives us a chance to get to know each other better, but it must serve this site's Prime Directive, which, as i understand it, is to give bassists an environment to share, learn from one another, and grow as players and people.

    current affairs in the world are very important, and as such need to be able to be discussed among us - we are an international community, and we can learn and grow a lot by the input from all our members around the world. somehow, in my opinion, we need to figure out a way in which current affairs can be discussed in a non-political way.

    this world that we live in is greater and more complex than pissing contests about the frontpage of cnn.com/foxnews.com. let's build on each other's unique experiences instead of fight one another over things that none of us have any direct control over and all of us end up paying for.

    you'll notice that this thread is locked. if you wish to discuss this with me, shoot me, jazzbo or Blackbird a pm or an email. you can also discuss this or share your opinion about this with The Boss at paul@talkbass.com.

    as of right now, until this has been decided on permanently, consider this a notice for a temporary moratorium on political threads.
  3. odie

    odie Supporting Member

    JT- you wrote a posting I could never match. Kudos!

    I agree that many of the discussions that have happened at Talkbass in the past and the present have gotten heated. Enough were people that had mutual respect and admiration for each other turned and were upset and even implied things that they would never have said. The problem in the world along with the internet and its forums is that things are often misunderstood. What someone in one side of the world sees and feels could never be understood by another on the opposite side.
    Arguements could never be won or agreed upon when the only way of discussing or enlightenment is thru typed words.

    The strongest strength of Talkbass is its diversity and the long reaching ability of the internet. I have been cultured by the diverseness and different opinions here. It would be a true indubitable lose if we could never discuss ongoing news worthy events here at TB.

    JT, Jazzbo, Paul, myself and others wanting to contribute ideas need to find a permanent solution to this. Therefore to avoid any future ungoing problems.

    Thanx for the post JT!!:)
  4. odie

    odie Supporting Member

    The amount of profanity at TB and in OT seems to be getting out of hand. Everyday it seems their is at least 2-3 reports to Mods about it.

    No use of the "F" word, "S" word or "B" word.

    If you use other words blank them out and make less obvious.

    Here is a snippet from the forum rules.Please remember that we have members that are young and some that are older.

    Obscenity is not permitted. When masking any profanity with symbols, be careful. Anything that is too obvious will be deleted. Also, inappropriate topics, (usually topics involving sexual situations or violence), will be moderated very closely. This is a family site.

    Something that doesn’t seem offensive to you, very well may offend someone else. I’ve often said that if you think it would offend the pope, don’t type it.

    Also, sometimes threads may seem to be going along without a problem, but the content may be directly insulting to another member. If it risks hurting a member or angering them, the thread could be closed, edited, or deleted.
  5. jazzbo


    Aug 25, 2000
    San Francisco, CA
    ....continued from original post.

    A message regarding “mega-threads”

    “Mega-threads” will often contain many differences of opinion. Sometimes these threads remain calm and rational. On occasion, they don’t. I’ve dealt with a plethora of these in the past, and if there’s one thing I’ve learned, it’s that people have much more in common then they think. Because of a history with these threads, I’ve talked to many members in private regarding particular “arguments” that have occurred. In every single situation the members involved with the heated exchanges wind up either apologizing for their actions, better understanding the other person’s beliefs, or not even realizing their posts may have offended. I’ve gotten so many PMs by members that were apologetic or saddened by the course of a thread. If something upsets you a great deal, the best advice is to walk away from the computer for a period of time. You’ll find that what you post after “cooling off” will be much more influential, articulate and representative of your true beliefs or feelings. This is only a music forum, it’s not worth angering yourself or others, or offending anyone.


    Whenever possible, proofread your post to ensure clarity and understanding.

    The “Report this post to a Moderator” function

    First, a big thank you to everyone who uses this function. It is extremely helpful to the moderators. As moderators, we’re expected to read everything that is posted. We will not catch everything, some of us, but not JT, have lives outside of Talkbass, and sometimes can’t be here for everything.

    Second, as a favor to the moderators, please do not quote posts that you recognize as inappropriate. When you quote a post or part of a post that contains profanity, abuse toward another member, spam, or anything else that is inappropriate, it causes twice as much work for the moderators, as we have to not only edit the original post, but also the quote in your post, and possibly the quote in someone else’s post who has done the same thing. This helps us out tremendously.

    A Final Word

    OT is here to help build friendships, whether online or in person, and to build general relationships between people. It should always be a fun, safe environment for all members. We have an amazing community here that is extremely mature and friendly. We want to keep it that way and will do everything in our power to maintain that. Help us help you. ;)

    Also, please review this post on occasion, it may have some edits later for points that I’ve forgotten or left out. I’ll post in this thread if any updates do occur.

    So, have fun, enjoy yourself, and don’t use tabs! :D
  6. jazzbo


    Aug 25, 2000
    San Francisco, CA
    Everyone remember, as a registered user, you are responsible for knowing the forum guidelines. Further, using OT, this thread is MANDATORY READING, clearly stuck to the top of each page of OT, so if you violate any of these guidelines, you will be held responsible.
  7. john turner

    john turner You don't want to do that. Trust me. Staff Member

    Mar 14, 2000
    atlanta ga
    there's a new rule in effect, folks, regarding discussion other discussion forums. namely, that we don't bad mouth or talk down about anybody else. it's not helpful, we don't like it when they do it to us and all it does is create bad blood between people.

    if you don't have anything nice to say, and all that. keep it in mind. thanks. :)
  8. JMX

    JMX Vorsprung durch Technik

    Sep 4, 2000
    Cologne, Germany
    Hi folks, I just wanted to chime in (my first mod action :p )

    Let's not waste time with bashing other forums, they have their place and function and people who love them the way they are.

    I'd also like to extend this, if jt doesn't mind. I'm getting tired of those "my guitarist/drummer/singer/henchman is..." threads - stop bashing them - you might desperately need one tomorrow. He who is without sin... ( oh man, this moderating thing ismaking me go soft in my atheist old-age... :D ).
  9. odie

    odie Supporting Member


    People can see thru the back talk and usually it willcast yourself in an unflattering light. If you really have a problem and need to say something take it to a PM or email with a close friend not on a forum.
  10. Blackbird

    Blackbird Moderator Supporting Member

    Mar 18, 2000
    Some members, old and new, haven't noticed the distinction between the Off Topic and the Miscellaneous forums, so here's a handy guide:

    Anything about:

    • General musician or band gossip,
    • Musicians who don't play bass,
    • Musical instruments in general,
    • Band names,
    • Bands

    And so forth and so on.

    Note: Topics obliquely related to music, such as tatoos, turntables, electronic music components, etc, work in OT just fine.

    If you're not sure where a thread goes, feel free to post it here and we'll gladly redirect it to the proper forum if necessary. Note:

    On occasion, threads whose placement were more or less obvious have been moved without redirects. I'll be leaving the redirects on from now on. Other Mods' ways of doing things may and will vary.

    Thanks for reading.

    Hi, everyone.

    In the past couple of days, we've had a few posts that, while not political in and of themselves, were still political enough in essence that they warranted closure.

    It is only natural that certain members, especially new ones, would be curious as to why this rule is in place. After all, we've had posts about almost every other kind of subject matter in this forum, not that you need me to point that out.

    If I can take folks down memory lane for a moment, I'd like to admit there was a time when politics were allowed in OT to an extent, but it was cause of much acrimony and the folks who modded this forum (Jazzbo, JT, JMX and Odie, iirc) had to watch the forum like hawks because threads were "sizzling" left and right (literally) when people got overly emotional about the issues discussed.

    Time came and time went, and the site grew to a point where two important additions were made: The Lobby, accessible to supporting members only, currently modded by Bob Clayton and myself, and Tin Pan Alley, or TPA for short, which was to be the forum where political discussions would be sanctioned.

    I am sorry to say that while a good idea, TPA was a bit of a disaster and no one could really have foreseen it. Basically, the heated discussions that took place in OT became extremely polarized in TPA, creating a lot of bad feelings between members, some of which had been very friendly before TPA was created. Worse, these feuds would invariably bubble up here and to the other general access forums, which in turn would diminish the quality of the exchanges here as well. This could not go on.

    After much time searching for a solution, it was with great reluctance that the forum administrator (Paul, for those who don't know) pulled the plug on TPA, but even with the forum closed, the bad taste still stayed for a while. In the process, the Lobby also suffered some damage, even stagnating. Thanks to the help of many supporting members, we managed to get the Lobby up and running again, but it wasn’t a smooth process by any means.

    So, how does this affect OT? Well, with TPA dead and buried, OT would by default be the place where politics should be discussed had the mods at the time not banned political talk in this forum at the time TPA was created. Basically the rule was never reversed because we’ve seen firsthand how such discussions can potentially destroy a forum, something that is in nobody’s interest. Borderline topics run the risk of becoming highly contentious because of two types of members:
    1. Members, old and new, who can’t help but chime in with partisan views because they don’t know of understand the rules; and
    2. Members, old and new, who understand the rules and wish the rules were different, so they consciously or unconsciously act like they don’t understand them, even if they’re perfectly intelligent on other subjects.

    I know most members can and do post responsibly and respectfully, but there is no way anyone can vouch for everyone, so unfortunately, the good must pay for the bad. I know I and other mods might seem to be coming down kind of hard on this, but I hope those who didn’t understand why have a better grasp of the situation now.

    Finally, for future reference, if there are any questions related to controversial forum rules, please take the time to send private messages to the mods first. We’ll be happy to clarify things if needed.

    Thanks for reading.

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