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4x10 question, specifically an Avatar

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Ralphdaddy, Jan 17, 2004.


  1. Ralphdaddy

    Ralphdaddy Supporting Member

    Nov 6, 2003
    Chicago, Illinois
    Ok, I have this Avatar B410, brand new as of December, and I'm only pushing it with a GK 400RB-IV currently, 280 watts max, and the cab is 4 ohms. For some reason, my speakers fart out a lot when I play with the bass turned up on my passive Fender and my Sterling, you know the tone control all the to the bridge so it's thick and thumpy like old school reggae. Also, it seems to me that the speakers on the right side of it, if you're looking right at it, pump a lot harder than the ones on the left, and fart out more often. I've never cranked the GK too far, I use their recommended "Reggae" setting, it's the treble at 9, high mids at 10:30, low mids at 1:30 and bass at 3. Boost at 3, Master at 12, input between 9-12. This should not be enough to blow speakers in a 1400 watt cab should it???? Besides, it came this way. This is my first 4x10, so I don't know a whole lot about them. Are my speakers blown, am I pumping too much bass into them or what's the deal here? And yes, when playing my actve Sterling I use the -14db pad. Thanks for the help guys, I'm so annoyed by this problem.
     
  2. the cab is way underpowered at the moment, so that may have something to do with the problem... perhaps clipping is being translated into speaker fart?...i don't know
     
  3. ESP-LTD

    ESP-LTD

    Sep 9, 2001
    Idaho
    I would have to qualify my response by saying I have never played with either your instruments, amp, or cab. I do have an Avatar B112 which I believe is a very good cabinet for the price and features. The thing I like about Avatar is that Dave tells you up front what kind of speakers he is using and how the box is tuned.

    That being said, if your EQ is active, setting bass to 3 o'clock is a fair amount of boost, which will use up your headroom fast. There have been many discussions on "underpowered"- use the search feature to find one. If your EQ was set flat, I wouldn't say it was necesarily underpowered (my opinion) as 1400w is the point where the driver voice coils catch fire, and that figure is not terribly relevant for making music.

    As for blowing speakers, you can cause electrical damage to the speakers from too much power. You can cause physical damage from an assorment of causes working together (use the search feature for Excursion, XMax or XMech).

    The Avatar 4x10 is tuned to make a lot of volume, not a lot of low end as this is what most folks seem to want. You may be trying to get the wrong sound from the wrong box (my opinion).
     
  4. Ralphdaddy

    Ralphdaddy Supporting Member

    Nov 6, 2003
    Chicago, Illinois
    That's true, when my tone is thinner I don't have as much speaker distortion, but it is still very apparent at even moderate volume levels, basically anything above practive level in my room. I might just call Dave at Avatar and see what he thinks, thanks a lot guys, I appreciate the input, keep it coming!
     
  5. Ralphdaddy

    Ralphdaddy Supporting Member

    Nov 6, 2003
    Chicago, Illinois
    Is it normal for one or two speakers to push harder than the others in a 4x10? And I thought the whole "underpowered" argument was proven wrong anyways.... Regardless if I'm pumping, I'm guessing here, about half of the amps 280 available watts into this 1400 watt cabinet, the thing shouldn't even begin to have the slightest hint of distortion let alone all out speaker fart right?
     
  6. You should try turning down the lows and highs, and turn up the mid a little bit more, in order to get a more punchy cutting sound, and see if the speakers still give you trouble. It may just be that you are trying to get too much low end bass out of them. Try another type of setting that would be easier on the speakers, and see if they still arent good. If they seem fine at a less boomy thumpy setting, then you will know that the problem is that you are trying to give them too much low end, and if that is so, try using a 15'' cab, or some 12''s
     
  7. Ralphdaddy

    Ralphdaddy Supporting Member

    Nov 6, 2003
    Chicago, Illinois
    I've done that too, if I go for a heavily midrange, cutting, type tone they still fart out at the same volume. I never had this kind of problem before with my old 15" combo, and I know they handle more bass but a 4x10 should be able to give me some form of thick bass response shouldn't it? Or am I just wasting my time trying to get bass from 4x10?
     
  8. ESP-LTD

    ESP-LTD

    Sep 9, 2001
    Idaho
    You have many questions.

    A speaker can make "bad sounds" for lots of reasons, but one of the most common is exceeding it's excursion limits (Xmax). When it does this depends on the frequency of the signal, the power of the signal, and the volume and tuning of the cabinet. When it exceeds Xmax, the speaker voice coil travels beyond the control of the magnet and since it is no longer controlled as it should be, the sound it produces is a distortion of the input signal.

    If you push a speaker too far, too often, you can cause physical damage (and often you can feel the voice coil scrape as it travels in and out).

    I have never tried different wiring schemes to see how wiring order changes the excurion of a speaker; I believe it can change how the speakers are damped by the amplifier but it's really beyond my skillset.

    High excursion (low) and high sensitivity (loud) are mutually exclusive design features in a speaker. Avatar cabs (like most) are designed to get loud; a few cabs (like ACME) are designed to get low. I personally use a lot of power and biamp so that my 112 only has to do the highs it's good at and my subwoofers just do low.

    Can a 4x10 do low? It is entirely possible to make a 4x10 cabinet that does strong lows, however most manufacturers choose high sensitivity instead, which is what the marketplace seems to want. When you get down to the specifications, most 4x10 cabs start rolling off the lows at 60hz or so, and it's pretty common to be -10 or -15db at 40hz.
     
  9. The 0x

    The 0x

    Aug 24, 2003
    Timonium, MD
    Or, you could get a Yorkville XC410. Goes down to 41hz and is very efficient.
     
  10. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    I would think that all four 10s would be doing the same work. Being a 4 ohm cabinet, my guess is that Avatar uses four 16 ohm Delta 10s and connects them all in parallel resulting in a 4 ohm cabinet.

    Perhaps a pair of the 10s are damaged/defective, etc.

    Give Dave a call, he'll take care of you...
     
  11. Ralphdaddy

    Ralphdaddy Supporting Member

    Nov 6, 2003
    Chicago, Illinois
    That's what I was thinking too Billy, thanks for answering the other part of my question, it's been bugging me since I bought the cab. I just called Dave and he thinks it might be the input panel, or a bad solder perhaps so we'll see what happens. It's true what everyone says, the man is so amazing to work with. You just don't get that kind of customer service anymore, especially not when you're 23 years old with your first 4x10 you know? Thanks for all the help guys, I'll let you know what the final answer is to the problem.
     
  12. Ralphdaddy

    Ralphdaddy Supporting Member

    Nov 6, 2003
    Chicago, Illinois
    Problem solved!!! After talking to Dave for like 10-15 minutes about my problems, we decided to take off the input panel and check the connections to the input jacks and make sure wires and such weren't touching or blocking some of the connection. Lo and behold, as I'm poking my face in there I see that the speaker connection, which just slips on or off, had come off of the upper left speaker and was making more power go to the other speakers. Onc I got the connector back on there the cabinet sounded amazing, better than it ever had since it had finally had four speakers all going like they were designed to. Thanks for all your wonderful insights guys!!!
     
  13. TxBass

    TxBass

    Jul 3, 2002
    Frisco, Texas
    that's a happy ending! congrats! :D
     
  14. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    According to the website, that "Enclosure is tuned to 65 Hz and the -3dB is 84 Hz"

    YOu've got the lows set at 3 O'clock? I'll bet money that the centre frequency on that know is below 65Hz?

    Speaker excursion increases rapidly at frequencies below the cabs tuning frequency (in this case 65Hz), especially at high volume. As ESP_LTD said, we're into X-max/distortion territory here. I don't like seeing speakers driven that hard.

    If the 4x10 seems to be working, that's great. I can't help think that that deep reggae tone you're after will be easier to get from larger drivers. A 15 maybe? Stick it under that 4x10 and enjoy the difference.