500k tone pot on a Jazz Bass? Getting a fuller tone?

Discussion in 'Pickups & Electronics [BG]' started by InstantEctobass, Jun 19, 2020.

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  1. InstantEctobass

    InstantEctobass

    Feb 18, 2018
    France
    Howdy folks!

    I have a 70s style Jazz Bass... it's made from parts (see here : NB(ody)D : another MIM FSR 70s Jazz Bass from 2018) and it looks and feel nearly as good as I could have gotten with parts.

    But sound wise I'm still lacking something... the tone is NOT as "full sounding" as I hoped. It's like with the tone full opened, it stops with high mids at best, in the high register, but the treble and high/clear zingyness/clankyness is lacking. It's not dull or dark, but it's not as "clair and opened" as I would love to!

    If you listen to that video comparing a 75 (ash body, rosewood fingerboard) and a 77 Jazz Bass (alder body, maple fingerboard), here...



    ... at the beginning, you can hear the 75, and then the 77, and you really can feel the difference in both tones. My own bass (ash body, maple fingerboard) currently sounds closer to the 77 in that video, but I would love to get the tone from the 75.

    I know that two instruments won't sound the same... but in electric instruments, it's not as evident as with pure acoustic things. I just went from a Squier soft maple body, one piece maple neck with painted black blocks and inlays, nickel vintage short frets, with original Squier pickups, to a Fender ash body, two piece maple neck with incrusted pearloid blocks and inlays, SS medium jumbo frets, and Fender 62 pickups, and guess what... with the same set of strings transfered to bass 1 to bass 2... the difference wasn't quite evident AT ALL: I transfered my control plate with pots from the Squier body to the Fender, and I'm quite sure that the "acting" on the tone from the pots and the cap is CLEARLY UNDERRATED.

    In order to try to achieve that tone, as I don't think the woods would make such a difference, and I also don't think Fender drastically changed their pickups from 75 to 77 (but I could be wrong? also, nothing is truly specified in the video if both basses are stock or if they have gone through modifications)... that's why I'm thinking to switch my 250k tone knob, to a B500k one.

    Any thoughts? Thanks! :)
     
  2. I am curious about the difference 500k pots make as well.
    However, I believe you need to replace all 3 with 500k, not just the tone pot.
     
  3. sikamikanico

    sikamikanico

    Mar 17, 2004
    My sense is it won’t give you what you want. Pot resistance impacts how pronounced the resonant frequency is (level). Higher value pots (or fewer pots) makes the peak more pronounced.

    You could test the difference in pot resistance by bypassing one (or all) pots. Straight to output wiring is the brightest (as in, most pronounced resonant peak). If that does it, higher value pots (or no load pots) would do the trick.

    Though what I’m hearing is a change in frequency (Not level). If you wanted to shift the peak to a lower frequency, you could do that with a small capacitor. But the shift I hear is towards higher frequency. Basically, fewer high mids (or even low treble), more treble. I think the only way to do that passively is with an inductor, like the Wilde/Bill Lawrence Q-filter setup.

    Another, simpler solution would be to just try some different strings...
     
    Charlzm likes this.
  4. InstantEctobass

    InstantEctobass

    Feb 18, 2018
    France

    Thank you for your input. I think I will try the direct output from volume to jack connector. The small capacitor changes the tone when the tone knob is closed, not when fully opened, or at least after reading a lot, that's what I concluded.

    Another string set? Nahh, I tried a lot of brands, and one got my heart. The tone that change that much. If you try a lot of roundwounds 45-100, whatever Stainless Steel or Nickel, to me... I never was really sure it makes all of a difference. I you use Ernie Ball or DR strings, they get dull very fast, so when you put a brand you set, you're like "wow !!!! they're good"... and then you switch to Elixir... after 1 year you buy a new set and you're like "why did I just spent 40 bucks for?"
     
    Passinwind likes this.
  5. All you can do is try it. I would start by changing the vol/blend all to 500k (as this is the first place in the circuit where the treble gets bled to ground) and then change the tone pot to 500k as well if you need even more. 250k pots bleed alot of treble to ground, which some people prefer in brighter j/single coil pickups. 500k will definitely open up the top end of the pickups as much less treble will be bled to ground. Will it be better/what you want? Won't know till you try unfortunately.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
  6. JeezyMcNuggles

    JeezyMcNuggles Supporting Member

    Feb 23, 2018
    Santa Maria, CA
    I suck, but nobody really notices
    Don't do it. I did, I switched back. I was trying to get more high end, but with singles, it's just screechy.
     
    Jefenator likes this.
  7. Coolhandjjl

    Coolhandjjl

    Oct 13, 2010
    Appleton
    The simplest and cheapest way to open up a bass's tone is to switch to a 500K tone pot. Allows more of the frequency spectrum in the high end get to the amp. But as mentioned above, some don't care for it depending on the pickups.
     
  8. InstantEctobass

    InstantEctobass

    Feb 18, 2018
    France
    I think I have a Korean Jazz Bass which pots are all 500k. I will swap the hole plate to check if I can reach the tone I'd like :)

    What did you try exactly? 500k tone and 2x250k for volume OR all 3x500k? Thanks

    I tried to undersolder my tone pot (250k) and direct the sound to jack output but it didn't make many change. I think I need the 500k volume pots!
     
  9. Coolhandjjl

    Coolhandjjl

    Oct 13, 2010
    Appleton
    If you bypassed the tone pot and didn't notice a change, that says something. Did you remove the tone pot fully from the circuit? A tone pot doesn't add frequencies, rather a higher value or no tone pot prevents highs from bleeding to ground.

    Any tone pot with a .047 cap technically will add a resonant hump towards the lower end when almost turned down, but it's hard to detect. Some people use a .02 or .01 to move that resonant hump upwards in the frequency range. The Hamer Cruise bass used a .01 or a .02 if I recall. Very unique.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
  10. You definitely need to stop the treble bleed at the pickups first (change the vol/blend pots). Only changing the tone pot to 500k will just exaggerate the resonant peak you aren't liking from the 250k treble bleed at the pickups.
     
    InstantEctobass likes this.
  11. InstantEctobass

    InstantEctobass

    Feb 18, 2018
    France
    Thank you Sir for your explaination, it's understood! I will see what that does and will update the thread. Have a nice day!
     
    iplay5strings likes this.
  12. If using all 500k pots is too much, just switch the tone pot back to 250k and you should be good to go. The sound of the pickups will remain open and the 250k tone pot will just tame high-end of the overall signal.
     
  13. JeezyMcNuggles

    JeezyMcNuggles Supporting Member

    Feb 23, 2018
    Santa Maria, CA
    I suck, but nobody really notices
    All 5s
     
  14. JeezyMcNuggles

    JeezyMcNuggles Supporting Member

    Feb 23, 2018
    Santa Maria, CA
    I suck, but nobody really notices
    Ooooo, that's an idea
     
    iplay5strings likes this.
  15. Killing Floor

    Killing Floor Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2020
    Austin, TX
    John East J-Retro Preamp.
    Learn it. Live it. Love it.
     
  16. InstantEctobass

    InstantEctobass

    Feb 18, 2018
    France
    I'm never throwing more money in a preamp that the total cost of my bass!
     
  17. For reference, here's my MTD Beast with Bartolini B Axis pickups and TCT preamp with 500k vol/blend knobs. Alder body and maple neck/board.

     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
    Ethereal Thorn and NigelD like this.
  18. InstantEctobass

    InstantEctobass

    Feb 18, 2018
    France
    Is that an active tone?
     
  19. It is, but all the knobs are at detent and since it has an active/passive switch the vol/blend are right after the pickups like they would be in a passive setup.
     
  20. I think strings make a huge difference - i only like certain stainless ones because I prefer bright and zingy and I can't get it from most nickels after a few days of playing. And theres a difference between the brands of steels too - I cant get on with Ernie Ball unless its the Cobalts and my faves are HiBeams or Dunlop Super Brights. And if i read this correctly you're using Elixirs.....these are the absolute worst for getting a bright snappy sound. They sound a month old and rubbery when they're new to my ears. Can't stand them. The first thing i would do is pop some Dunlop Super Brights on and see how you go...
     
    jbrew73 and Alessandro Cruz like this.