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6 String Bass guitar for life music with a PA system should i use a bass monitor or a RIG!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Yunior, Jul 11, 2018.


  1. Yunior

    Yunior

    Jul 11, 2018
    Canada, Ontario
    Hello guys, i have to say im pretty new here but i have use this forum since always for research and learn about my set up!

    Today i have a very important question for me! I have been searching with no result. The question is:

    -I have a 6 string bass Ibanez BTB, i use an stage monitor yorkville and the sound is very slim never like a bass so i wanted to upgrade to 1-Ampeg 4x10 cab 800 watt and 1x15 400 watt cab plus an amp or 2-Traynor TC 410 800 watt and TC 215. So should i just buy an other monitor little better that current one or i should get my rig stack set up! NOTICE i dont normally play outside, always inside a salon and there is a DI and PA trough system.

    -How much different could it be? people say if i have a PA system there is no point to upgrade so much as the upgraded cab and amp.... all will be just for me to listen only as the public will get what is comming from PA standard sound!

    Please i know is quite long but i wanted to be very detail so you guys can give me a heand!

    Also something to know is that the rest of the team musician they have just monitors about 1x10" just for them to listen however i want to get this cabs and amp set up my RIG but if i know i wont be using it so much i will not buy it, dont want to buy it just to raise the volume a little big bearly for me to hear only, if so i better buy a monitos small better quality that we currently have. By the way i can afford any of the sample i did so money is not the problem for this samples!

    any idea/help will be for ever gratefull appreciated.

    thanks
    Yunior
     
    Pbassmanca likes this.
  2. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Maybe the crowd will hear you from the PA but you and the band have to be inspired by your tone, too. Doesn't have to be big like a 410, but it should at least be more inspiring than "thin."
     
    wildman2, zon6c-f, Wisebass and 3 others like this.
  3. Yunior

    Yunior

    Jul 11, 2018
    Canada, Ontario
    I know i understand this but The thing is i have my dream of 1x15 and 4x10 + and amp Rig because i have try those in the store and this is what i want to play with. But the dream doesnt matter if i will just use it in 5% capability! Or will the sound as well will came out as nice as i will hear it with the RIG to the public?
     
    Pbassmanca likes this.
  4. craigie

    craigie

    Nov 11, 2015
    calgary
    You need to supply more information about the PA you use, gigs you do etc.

    I use a good PA setup with EV15’s, lots of power, very clean, and a powered subwoofer. We only do gigs where we provide our own PA and mix from stage. I use IEM’s. In that context the most important thing to me about my rig is the DI sound I can get out of the PA, and it sounds great. I stopped bringing my 212 better sounding eden cabinet to gigs and just use the TC210 which honestly isn’t great but I would never hear the difference as it’s just very low for a little more stage presence.

    Others use full rigs to great effect. So you see it’s so dependent on the PA, band and use it can be generalized. Check out the ongoing thread about PA vs rig “why bother owning an amp.” Lots of great info in there and I’ve learned a lot just reading it.

    Lastly, you can always rent gear for pretty cheap to try it out with your band which is the only way to really know.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
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  5. Bim1959

    Bim1959

    Apr 15, 2009
    Naples Florida
    Sales and electronic tech/piano tech: England Music Center - Clinton IA - now closed
    The rig you played thru in a store: was it thru both cabinets at the same time or did you try out one cabinet and then the other?

    The PA that's involved: is it yours personally or does the band you are currently in own it?

    If it were me I'd start out by getting an amp and a 410 cabinet to have onstage anyway. Who knows? Maybe someone will ask yoir band to play at an outdoor show with other bands in which you will need an amp to play thru.

    Even if you're only going to be using a stand-alone rig maybe 5% of the time, if you dont have it and something goes wrong with the PA you will need your rig.

    Btw. Welcome to Talkbass!!!
     
    Pbassmanca likes this.
  6. Bim1959

    Bim1959

    Apr 15, 2009
    Naples Florida
    Sales and electronic tech/piano tech: England Music Center - Clinton IA - now closed
    Also. When you get a chance could you please fill out your profile? It'll help others to be able to help you better....
     
    Pbassmanca and BassmanPaul like this.
  7. MarkA

    MarkA I believe in countermelody. Supporting Member

    Sep 26, 2008
    Depending on the exact Yorkville monitor you're using and the specific cabs you're looking at, you might be looking at anything from a moderate to a huge jump in volume capability. If I read your original post right, one of the options is a 4x10 plus a 2x15 -- is that right? That's a huge rig... I mean, not the hugest, but pretty big. :)

    I know that a lot of people use a 4x10 with a 1x15, but I personally wouldn't do it -- particularly if one of the cabs handles 400 Watts and the other handles 800 Watts -- unless I was running them with a two channel power amp or something else that let me balance the power to the cabs appropriately.

    Anyway, if you can be a bit more specific about what, exactly, you're playing now and what, exactly, you're looking at, that will help. Your location will be relevant insofar as what might be available to you where you are.

    If you're coming from a small-ish monitor (which might not be that suited to handling bass) to a "real" rig, you might find that a single 4x10, or the 2x15, or two of the 1x15, will be as loud as you need -- you can then start putting together a rig based on which cabs you like the sound of better. You don't have to match the brand of amp and cab, by the way, though I realize that some people like that.

    I've played through on-stage monitors before, without an amp of my own. Never really liked them that much for bass, though I realize that some monitors are better than others.
     
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  8. Pbassmanca

    Pbassmanca In the pocket n' thumpy. So woody, so greasy...

    Hey @Yunior! I can definitely understand you wanting to get a real bass tone for your live performance as opposed to crappy monitor tones. In my opinion a person should just buy the rig they want to buy regardless of where they're going to use it. If you want a 410 and a 115 even if it's only for you, you will get enjoyment out of the rig and so it will be worth it for you! On a more practical level I think you are on the right track by mentioning the Traynor TC 410 cab. Most of the ones I have played through are 4 ohm cabs capable of handling 800w and they will put out A LOT of quality, fat, punchy bass tone if you feed them the wattage. Of course you don't have to play it loud at whatever venue you are using, but if you do pick up a good amp and this cab, then you will be able to play even larger stages with this rig and not have to worry about being underpowered. I recently played a gig with the Traynor TC 410 supplied as backline, and I have to tell you it had a lot of balls with an all tube Ampeg SVT! Happy hunting!
    20180602_185031.
     
    Arthur U. Poon likes this.
  9. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Gold Supporting Member

    Aug 25, 2007
    Toronto Ontario Canada
    @Yunior do a search on mixing a 4x10 and 1 1x15. You’ll see that they are not ideal and, if you need two boxes, matching them is the safest way to go. Pick the box that you prefer and then buy two.

    I went with a vertical stack of two 2x10s and they fill my needs nicely.

    Edit: I should add that the bass in my Avatar is my Carvin LB76WP six string. I have three sixes but mostly play my Koa LB76F lined fretless. :)

    Edit2: Forgive me but I forgot to welcome you to the ranks of TalkBass where men are men and sheep are nervous! :D
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
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  10. Pbassmanca

    Pbassmanca In the pocket n' thumpy. So woody, so greasy...

    A good quality 212 would probably suit you as well. Or a modular 2 x112 mini stack might actually really be your best bet. Mesa, Ampeg, Markbass, Aguilar, Barefaced, Hartke, Vanderkley, Traynor, pretty much everybody is making great single 12's these days, and 2 of them stacked together really makes for a loud and powerful, yet modular package that will suit small to large venues. Given your situation, I would seriously consider this option.
     
    Arthur U. Poon likes this.
  11. Tony Johnson

    Tony Johnson Guest

    Jun 27, 2018
    I play an Ibanez GVB-36 6 string into a Hartke LH-1000 1000w head and drive a Hartke Hy-Drive HX-410 cab and Hartke Hy-Drive HX-115 cab in bridge parallel mode. (2 x 8 ohm cabs in parallel that present a 4 ohm load to the amp head.) For about a year, I used the LH-1000 with the 410 cab. Then a month ago I got the 115 cab. I noticed a big difference especially on the low B string with the addition of the 115 cab. I find that this bass rig configuration works best for me in a wide variety of venues to get the tone I want/need on stage regardless if I am running my sound through a PA or not. I never run the full thousand watts but it is there if I need it...lots of head room and a three band EQ. I have an active bass EQ as well so lots of tone shaping capability. However, I want to hear my sound but not blow my eardrums in the process! You use only the amount of volume that you need for your venue as louder is not necessarily better. I remember going to brewhouse one night and noticed that everyone was out on the large patio because the band was playing so loud inside bar/dining area. If I need it louder for the audience, I will have the sound man turn up the bass on the board for the PA. Stage monitors have to be a good size to get good bass tone but you will have more flexibility with a bass rig...(PA, No PA, sound board/no sound board, large, medium, small venue, stage indoor/outdoor, studio etc.) In ear monitors work best for my old ears rather than stage monitors. They are a lot lighter to carry too! The LH-1000 has a Direct Inject XLR out on the front panel to run to the sound board/PA. You just have experiment a little to find out what combination of bass amp/cab(s)/monitors/ in ear monitors/ etc. works best for you and the sound that you and your bandmates are trying to achieve. The important thing to keep in mind is that you have to be able to hear what your bandmates are doing especially the drummer (and hope that he keeps good time to avoid a train wreck:)). You get the bass rig combination that works best. Ask yourself will a amp head with a 4x10 cab and 1x15 cab work best for you for the sound you are trying to achieve or do you just want this bass rig set up just to have it. It is a hard question to ask you if you are being honest with yourself. For me and what I do, my Hartke rig works just fine. For somebody else, it might not work very well at all.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
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  12. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Gold Supporting Member

    Aug 25, 2007
    Toronto Ontario Canada
    I suspect Tony, that most of the difference you heard adding the 1x15 is the height change bringing the speakers closer to your ear'oles. :)
     
  13. Yunior

    Yunior

    Jul 11, 2018
    Canada, Ontario
    I agree with that however buying such RIG $1800+ just to raise the volume for me to hear only is kinda not fear and not worstwhile indirectly.
     
  14. TheReceder

    TheReceder

    Jul 12, 2010
    Mn.
    I've been corrupted. I've got a set of IEMs and I've got a couple QSC k12.2s showing up tomorrow. If I've got an out door event I'll bring my stack, but otherwise anything anyone needs comes through monitors. I'm able to keep the rest of the band inspired by my volume( or lack there of) more than I could inspire them by my tone. They can turn the bass up or down in their monitor mix as much as they want and we can all keep our stage volume down enough to keep our sound man happy.
     
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  15. Yunior

    Yunior

    Jul 11, 2018
    Canada, Ontario
    please see my reply below!
     
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  16. Yunior

    Yunior

    Jul 11, 2018
    Canada, Ontario
    Thank you Tony, that was a lot of usefull informations. i will keep it in mind specially the last question, "will a amp head with a 4x10 cab and 1x15 cab work best for you for the sound you are trying to achieve or do you just want this bass rig set up just to have it" this is very important.
     
  17. Yunior

    Yunior

    Jul 11, 2018
    Canada, Ontario
    Tank you, regarding the recomendation i believe it may be ok too, but i kind of want to get a nice warm punch no bright for slap but clearity that you can hear the very low tones and very high as well and i believe getting a 4x10 and 1x15 will match this sound as i test it little bit!
     
  18. Yunior

    Yunior

    Jul 11, 2018
    Canada, Ontario
    Wow an other reason to keep up my choice :y thank you so much! however I'm planning to get this Traynor or Ampeg 4x10 thinking about which one still! Just to clarify to some of the guys, the idea to get a 2 boxes doesnt means i want to volume up all the way, is to get this combined tones out in anaceptable volume! also the main question is will it be worthy because i will be sent to a PA and basically my rig will be listened just by me in front no body else so kind of "Should i do it or not"
     
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  19. Yunior

    Yunior

    Jul 11, 2018
    Canada, Ontario
    Hello Guys i know it have been quite long comments and seems there is lots of oppinion around here i believe you should know this info so you can help me understand better my moove from this little wedge amp i currently have.

    Its a Church where we play 2 a week and 1 day practice so is not like everyday GIG LOL. The size is like a small manufactury about 2000 Sqf inside and Cealling is High, they have sound proof walls no that it help so much but control a bit the ecco and frequency.

    For technically: we have 2 guitars and 1 piano Plus drummer and bass. 1 guitar he has his Pedals, borad..... 2 speaker 1 for the acustic and 1 for the electric guitar sent to a DI connected to the mixer, 2 guitarrist same thing he has 1 amp and a bunch of pedals sent trough a DI to the mixer i get the wedge small yorkville amp connected to the 2nd guitarrist DI so i believe soon i have to get my own line and DI to get directly alone to the Mixer any ways! the piano and drummer as well are on the mixer, the mixer is sending the signal to the controler sound guy on the cabine which he has an other tool/mixer/PA that he control the sound individually to be clear. there are 4 main Yorkville speakers on the stage hinging up i dont know if bass sound cam out properly as i dont know those speakers quality. The thing is Knowing all of that i want to get a RIG properly for a bass player to sound warm puchy not for slapping No for Picks as i hate picks but for finger style, i already got an idea of what i want as i try different on the store single cabs, 2 cabs.... and i realize i may get the best result with 1x15 and 4x10, the thing is will the sound cam out the PA/Mixer totaudience as i will listen to it on my RIG? or i should not buy all of this just to listen myself. Im not intended by no means to have this expensive RIG there with high Volume But to get Nice sound quality in an aceptable volume. I feel some time is not worthy to buy all of this because is just for me to listen up there as the PA will do the job. I will attach couple of pictures today.
     
  20. Yunior

    Yunior

    Jul 11, 2018
    Canada, Ontario
    IMG_20180712_2024596. 6-string-ibanez-btb-406qm-bass-guitar-americanlisted_37379609.
     
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