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610 cab sounds great out front but is knocking drummers over with boom

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by DeepSouth, Jan 16, 2020.


  1. DeepSouth

    DeepSouth

    Aug 6, 2008
    I run a Fender Super Bassman and the Fender 610 Neo cab.

    I know this cab is front ported so I can't figure out why I have god awful amounts of loud boomy bass behind the cab. It was never an issue when I was using small amps and DI. But I'm addicted to the feel of big iron bass amps now. Gotta figure it out.

    I always go out from with my wireless and dial everything in for the room so I know its not boomy all over the club, sounds fantastic out front, get compliments often on the sound. Just back there where the drummer sits its brutally boomy. Months back a high pass filter was suggested. I did try that but did nothing for the backwash of bass.

    It bugs me. I on occasion visit a blues jam where the house cab is an Ampeg 810. Its not a large bar and the cab is right up against the wall in a corner with the drums and sits on a wooden riser.
    No boom issue at all. No issues with the sound bleeding off to the sides and back killing everyone towards the rear of the stage.

    Its really become an issue. I've had drummers get seriously pissed over it.

    I'm considering picking up a cheap used Ampeg 810 to see if a matter of ported vs closed cab. I want my sound out front not killing pounding the drummer with dubby boom noise.

    I really not sure what to do about it.
     
    Auspuff likes this.
  2. mmbongo

    mmbongo Five Time World Champion Supporting Member

    Aug 5, 2009
    Carolinas
    Give me an 'H'! Give me a 'P'! Give me an 'F'!

    What does that spell??

    HIGH PASS FILTER!!
     
  3. Kro

    Kro Supporting Member

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    It should have nothing to do with the porting, it probably has more to do with the dispersion of highs. See if you can get the cab behind your drummer, and angle it in a bit so that he's closer to on-axis. I understand that it won't be feasible to point it directly at the drummer, but every little bit seriously helps.

    Odds are the issue isn't so much the boom itself, but lack of definition from all of the highs being projected away from him.
     
    Zbysek, gitfiddl, AGCurry and 2 others like this.
  4. mmbongo

    mmbongo Five Time World Champion Supporting Member

    Aug 5, 2009
    Carolinas
  5. Kro

    Kro Supporting Member

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    An HPF won't cure a dispersion issue, not without running it so high that it wrecks the tone elsewhere. Also, he said he already tried one and it didn't help.

    Also, is there FOH support in these clubs? Just trying to figure out how much of what you're hearing out front is due to your cab and how much is from FOH.

    IME, for smaller stages, getting the cab behind drums and angled-in is the solution. On bigger stages, point the cab it at you, let the FOH system do the heavy lifting, and let the drummer's monitor fill in some highs from the bass.
     
    Jim Carr, Avigdor, Zbysek and 4 others like this.
  6. mmbongo

    mmbongo Five Time World Champion Supporting Member

    Aug 5, 2009
    Carolinas
    Oh I missed the part about trying the HPF already. If that didn't help, maybe a parametric EQ or as already planned...a new cab. I'd go smaller rather than bigger though.
     
  7. Kro

    Kro Supporting Member

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    I'd honestly be pretty surprised if this couldn't be fixed with a little placement experimentation.
     
    retslock, mcnach, Rip Van Dan and 7 others like this.
  8. A quick and inexpensive attempt might be to lift the cab off the floor with two milk crates? It may be coupling with the floor but I'd tend to lean towards Kro's solution especially if an HPF didn't help.
     
    flewis, retslock, mcnach and 5 others like this.
  9. el jeffe bass

    el jeffe bass

    Nov 22, 2013
    New Mexico
    mmbongo likes this.
  10. Good luck moving the drummer or the cab so the drummer is in front of the cab. Some things aren't that easy to fix.

    Maybe you can give drummer a monitor with some high passed bass in it.
     
  11. ctmullins

    ctmullins fueled by beer and coconut Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 18, 2008
    MS Gulf Coast
    I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
    A sealed 810 has far less deep bass than a ported 610.

    I vote for room placement - avoid putting the cab close to any hard surfaces, including the floor.

    Also, EQ the cab for the stage, and then and only then adjust FOH for the room.
     
    retslock likes this.
  12. Kro

    Kro Supporting Member

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    Honestly, for many of the clubs where I play that don't have a monitor for the drummer, I do have the opportunity to get my cab at least a hair behind the drummer, and angled slightly in more frequently than you might expect.

    Not everywhere, but it isn't unheard of.
     
  13. rogypop

    rogypop

    Jan 10, 2009
    Croatia
    Maybe low pass filter would help more in this scenario, as to run one vertical row of 10's fullrange while cutting everything above 800ish hz on the other row. That would help with dispersion a lot and would be an easily reversible/defeatable mod.
     
    Matthijs and ctmullins like this.
  14. Wesley R

    Wesley R Gold Supporting Member

    You have a cab that sounds good out front, AND knocks the drummer over. Sounds like a two for to me. Just kidding I have actually liked many of the drummers I have worked with.
     
  15. Clubs without monitors for drummers ime have one place for the drummer, the far corner, and one place for the bass cab, right next to the drummer.
     
    Bill Whitehurst likes this.
  16. micguy

    micguy

    May 17, 2011
    A 610 is a 2 dimensional array - it's power at mid and high frequencies goes forward in a beam, which, because it's a 2 dimensional array, beams in both the vertical and horizontal planes. Nothing you can do to the signal going into it will change that. At low frequencies, its acoustical output power is omnidirectional - it goes everywhere. Again, nothing you can do to the signal going into the speaker will change that directional behavior.

    If you're not in the beam, you're getting boom. Put the drummer not in the beam, and back him up to a wall - where the low frequency energy doubles as you get close to the wall (the incoming and outgoing waves add pressure wise when you're less than a quarter wavelength from that boundary), and....it's boom city.

    It's not a mystery, it's just Acoustics.

    Fixes? some bands put their amps to the side(s) of the stage, firing across. Doing that, the drummer would be in the beam, so what he heard would be more balanced. He might ask you to turn down, which would generally help your sound as well. It also takes the audience out of the beam - assuming you have a reasonable (not loud) stage volume, a good PA, and a good FOH person, that's an advantage.

    A high pass filter, while it's often a good thing, and may (or may not) be applicable here, isn't always the fix for EVERYTHING. It won't change the polar pattern of the loudspeaker or the placement of things (which is likely most of the issue here) at all.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  17. byacey

    byacey

    May 16, 2008
    Alberta, Canada
    Putting the bass cab in a corner or against a wall is exacerbating the problem due loading.Move out and away from any barriers.
     
    murphy and Samatza like this.
  18. DeepSouth

    DeepSouth

    Aug 6, 2008
    I think you might be right. I'll experiment more with cab placement. I keep a good HPF on my board but it never gets rid of this issue. Thx everyone for the input!
     
    Zbysek likes this.
  19. Omega Monkey

    Omega Monkey

    Mar 8, 2015
    What kind of volume are you playing at, what are your eq settings (including on your bass or any pedals), and where is the cab in relation to both the drummer and any walls? Also, what kind of PA support is there? Is the bass also running into a PA with subs? If you can get the cab at least 3-5 feet from any walls, and play at a reasonable stage volume, and don't do a bunch of bass and low mid boosting, you should be fine.

    Also just for reference, what head are you using? Some bass heads are "woolier" than others.
     

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