1. Please take 30 seconds to register your free account to remove most ads, post topics, make friends, earn reward points at our store, and more!  
     
    TalkBass.com has been uniting the low end since 1998.  Join us! :)

6x10 same as 4x10 plus 2x10

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Skarekrough, Mar 20, 2013.


  1. Skarekrough

    Skarekrough

    Aug 7, 2006
    In the past few months I've been rehearsing with an Ampeg Classic 6x10 cab and have very much liked the way it responds. The depth of the tone just puts a big old smile on my face.

    With a gig coming up in a month or so I need to put a rig together for it.

    I would go for a 6x10 but it's really WAY bigger than I can house reasonably. I also know we have some smaller gigs after the one coming up and would like to have something smaller on hand for those.

    I'm using an 800RB head which would power both cabs.

    Thanks!
     
  2. BryanB

    BryanB Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    In general, the answer is no. However, you might get lucky and find a combination that sounds like the 6x10 you like so much.
     
  3. Baird6869

    Baird6869 RIP Gord Downey. A True Canadian Icon. Supporting Member

    Won't an 8ohm 210 paired with a 4ohm 410 with the same drivers from the same manufacturer, sound like that manufacturer's 610?

    IMO, it would be very close, but I am ready to stand corrected.:p
     
  4. It might depending on the internal volumes and porting. More to the point it would be a 2.667 Ohm load, which isnt going to play well with a 4 Ohm stable amp. In his case he should be looking at an 8 Ohm 410 and a 16 ohm 210 (find a 4 ohm 210 with 8 ohm drivers wired in parallel and then re-wire in series). Which would give a 5.667 Ohm impedance.
     
  5. RickenBoogie

    RickenBoogie

    Jul 22, 2007
    Dallas, TX
    +1 on the impedance issues, and +1 to it's not going to work in this case. Besides, a 610 takes no more room than a 410/210 does. But, whatever you do, don't get an 8 ohm 410 and an 8 ohm 210 unless you're willing to blow the 210 out and replace it.
     
  6. IPYF

    IPYF

    Mar 31, 2011
    One of the best live rigs I've ever used was a 410 and a 210. The 410 was a Trace 1048H like my own and I didn't catch the brand of the 210, but it wasn't matched. Head was a Furman PC then a racked sansamp running into a Trace 600w 12 band amp. The sound was absolutely incredible. I'd use that setup again in a heartbeat. It can be done.
     
  7. Jaco who?

    Jaco who?

    May 20, 2008
    With an 800 rb, you could run an 8Ω 210 on the 100W high amp, have 50W max per driver, and run a 4Ω 410 with the 300W low amp, have 75W max per driver, and find they sound pretty equal - but you might wind up leaving the 210 at home once you notice you don't really notice the difference.

    Wasted run on sentence of the day. ;)
     
  8. Jim Carr

    Jim Carr Dr. Jim Gold Supporting Member

    Jan 21, 2006
    Denton, TX or Kailua, HI
    fEARful Kool-Aid dispensing liberal academic card-carrying union member Musicians Local 72-147
    This rig uses a 4 ohm Epifani UL410 and an 8 ohm Epifani UL210, (n.b. the photo shows an 8 ohm NYC 210 that has been superseded by a UL210—with identical neo drivers).

    The rig kills. I have since taken up the Mesa M9 carbine faith :D, and use the Crest CA6 for a PA amp.

    There are several advantages to the 4 ohm 410/8 ohm 210 architecture, assuming the cabs sound good (to you) together:

    —any combination sounds great!
    —if a driver in one cab dies at a gig, you still have the other cab.
    —You can take the 210 to rehearsal, the 410 to most gigs, and the 610 to lay waste to the evil invading zombie hordes :)D).
    —a small and a medium-sized cab are more flexible for packing into a vehicle than a 610.
    —either the 210 or 410 cabinet can be repurposed on the fly if there is an onstage emergency of some kind. With the 610, you are stuck.
    —the individual cabs are each lighter than a 610, though the entire weight might be slightly more. Even though there are no casters on my cabs, I find the two smaller cabs easier to handle with or without a hand truck—and I have handled the towel-bar tilt-back wheels type cab plenty. I prefer the two modules for stairs and loading.
    —drivers can be swapped between cabs.
    —sound is up at ear level with the 610, and is loud loud loud.
    —looks cool? ;)

    BigRig.
    P9060252.
     
  9. jlepre

    jlepre

    Nov 12, 2007
    Parsippany, NJ
    I have owned BOTH the Ampeg SVT610HLF and SVT410HLF and IMHO adding a 210 to the 410 would sound NOTHING like the 610.
     
  10. I own and use an Ampeg 610 on a regular basis. I have also used a 410/210 combination as well. IMO the 610 had a better sound and moved more air than the 410/210 combo.
    The 610 is a beast to move but to me it's worth it. The 610 is the cab that covers it all for me.
     
  11. Jim Carr

    Jim Carr Dr. Jim Gold Supporting Member

    Jan 21, 2006
    Denton, TX or Kailua, HI
    fEARful Kool-Aid dispensing liberal academic card-carrying union member Musicians Local 72-147
    I have not used an Epifani UL610. However, I am sure that one would hear a difference between the 410/210. Better? Worse? Only the user can decide. I will say that the cabinet volume per driver appears to a hair larger in the case of the Epifani 410/210. The specs claim lower tuning for the 610, 35hz vs 40hz, but to me this is pretty trivial, as we don't get to see frequency vs. amplitude plots.

    Ampeg? I don't know.

    Try the Ampeg 410/210 if the advantages appeal to you. If it sounds good, it is good.

    PS. The Epifani 410/210 is darker than the 410, despite having two tweeters.
     
  12. In short, no.

    It's not just the impedance, the drivers, the porting, the volumes, driver phasing, etc. It's also the coupling. 6 10s sharing the same baffle will not resonate in the same way as 4 on one baffle and 2 on the other, even if you screwed them together.

    It's like comparing two parallel 410s to an 810. They're just not the same. They match air volumes, porting, and impedance, but they're not on the same baffle.

    Thy house shall not shake in the same way, my son. Thy knick-knacks and chotchkies shall remain on their shelves.
     
  13. Jim Carr

    Jim Carr Dr. Jim Gold Supporting Member

    Jan 21, 2006
    Denton, TX or Kailua, HI
    fEARful Kool-Aid dispensing liberal academic card-carrying union member Musicians Local 72-147
    Re: 810, actually, no.

    Don't forget that Ampeg 810's are typically partitioned inside into 210 pairs. I don't dispute that they (610 vs. 410/210) are different, but believe me the tchotchkes fly like mad when I release my 410/210 Epifani Kraken.
     
  14. They still have all 8 on the same baffle, whereas no combination of 410s will match. Same will go for a 610 compared with a 410 and 210.

    It's gonna rumble either way; they just won't be equal.

    You also have a killer power amp pushing them ;) I love those CA series. I used to use one on an old 70s Peavey 215 with spray painted cones and an 810TX. Knickknacks did not stand a chance.
     
  15. Jim Carr

    Jim Carr Dr. Jim Gold Supporting Member

    Jan 21, 2006
    Denton, TX or Kailua, HI
    fEARful Kool-Aid dispensing liberal academic card-carrying union member Musicians Local 72-147
    OK, I'll take the bait. Why does it matter? :cool:
     

Share This Page