Psst... Ready to join TalkBass and start posting, make new friends, sell your gear, and more?  Register your free account in 30 seconds.

800RB Direct out question.

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Bayou_Brawler, Feb 25, 2005.


  1. Bayou_Brawler

    Bayou_Brawler The most hurtful thing ever realized

    Oct 23, 2003
    Ann Arbor, MI
    I play with a GK 800RB amp. I use effects pedals when I play on stage and I am also constantly changing my tone during the set through my tone knob on my bass.

    my 800RB has a built in direct out. if the sound guy uses the direct out from my amp during a live show will my effects and tone knob still be picked up the same way they would being miced???

    also i just posted a thread about how much your stage rig matters at shows. some people were talking about buying their own DI. is this any different than the one built into my head?
     
  2. appler

    appler Guest

    I have a similar question... if I have effects running through the effects loops of my amp (like a distortion pedal) and then I kick them on, will the sound level being sent through the DI out change? I use a SWR Workingman's 12 combo amp, by the way.

    I played a show once where I did the bass --> pedal --> amp input thing instead of using the effects loop because I had accidentally broken a few instrument cables. When I kicked the pedal on, the level being sent to the PA through the DI out of the amp was way different, which led to a horrible front of house sound. I don't want a problem like that to happen again... I need the level to stay the same. Will the effects loop and its blend function take care of this?

    Thanks in advance for any help!
     
  3. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    it depends upon the amp. look near the xlr di out on your amp. there may eb a switch that says pre/post. in the pre position it will give you a signal pre eq, pre effects loop. in the post position it will give you a signal that is after the eq and effects loop. Some amps have the di hard wired one way or the other, but IIRC, most of the time these hard wired di outs are post eq/effects. still other amps (not many) have two seperate di outs, one pre eq, one post eq.
     
  4. burk48237

    burk48237 Supporting Member

    Nov 22, 2004
    Oak Park, MI
    Ivanmike is right most better amps give you the option of going post or pre EQ. If they don't in most cases they are going post, although I would check the manual or manufactor to be sure. NOW TO MAKE LIFE BAD FOR YOU, most of these built in Direct outs suck! There are a few exceptions, but even my Eden which was considered very high end at the time, had a noisy direct out, and I wouldn't be too hopeful that the 800RB is an exception. Years ago one of the reasons I was considering a Demeter Pre was there direct out's Quality. I played thru as 800RB at Hart Plaza, Rigged Bi-amp with Hartkes, the house guys at the time used there own direct box( I believe countryman). There are probably a few amps that have good built in direct outs, But trust me on this one, the quickest way to improve your sound is to invest in good direct box.
     
  5. appler

    appler Guest

    Thanks for the help, guys.
     
  6. I'm 110% sure that my late 90s SWR Workingman 12 has a DI that is Pre EQ (therefore pre FX). In other words none of the front panel knobs will effect the XLR DI out. And if you have an FX in the FX loop, the sound will not get to the FOH system through the DI.

    Check your owners manual to be 100% sure on your amp.

    Talking with various soundman, most of them don't like to take a post EQ / post FX DI because some bass players radically alter there sound. For example, a bass players stage rig might have a 15db boost at 100hz and that's the way he likes it through his Ampeg 8x10 stack, but the soundman will have trouble getting a clear sound with the rest of the band through his 15 000 watt FOH system with 4 18inch subs.

    Another reason various soundmen don't like the post EQ / post FX DI is if the bass player uses a distortion box that kicks in a 10db gain that hits his all tube stage amp,... well it might sound find on stage with the amps natural compression but the soundmans mixing board gets clipped and his systems goes nuts.

    I believe all of this can be worked out if you talk to your soundman and have lots and lots of sound check time but with the places that I play that hold 200-500 people, have 2-3 bands a night and have the sound man doing 15 different other things (like picking up women half way through our set),... my philosophy is to leave less up to the soundman in order to make his job easier.

    I run bass into FX (ME-50B) into amp (SWR SM 900) and ask him to run a DI off of the amp. The soundman usually hesitates but I garantee him that it's a clean Pre EQ DI and they have always been happy. I then make sure that when I stomp on the ME-50B, nothing is going to radically change. I hit the chorus/reverb and it's just adding a touch. I kick in a slight bit of overdrive and it's just a touch, a 1db or 2db boost that I have already sound checked.

    Sounds great on the stage and in the FOH although it never seems enough during band practice but the point his you're dealing with a different room/acoustics/situation.

    Hope that helps.
     
  7. Bayou_Brawler

    Bayou_Brawler The most hurtful thing ever realized

    Oct 23, 2003
    Ann Arbor, MI
    how much does a decent direct out cost?
     
  8. burk48237

    burk48237 Supporting Member

    Nov 22, 2004
    Oak Park, MI
    They start at about 180 for the countryman, at about 250 I believe you get into the Sans Amp, Sadowsky Pre price range. The Brick is 399 (grove tubes) and the Avalon U5 is 539. The radials I believe are in the 299 range. You can go higher, some Avalons and the millenia are well into the 2000 range! The U5 is kinda the standred, but there's agood thread on this in the effect section including some testing.
     
  9. Dude, you can get a very basic Rolls Matchbox for MUCH cheaper that'll work. Most clubs (as I understand) have DIs, though it's always a nice feature to have.
     
  10. burk48237

    burk48237 Supporting Member

    Nov 22, 2004
    Oak Park, MI
    Yah, And you can also by an Fender Squire for a lot less then a Sadowsky, So? There are huge differences in Direct boxs even in the high end stuff, and they make a big difference. If I had to start from scratch today it would be with my Metro and my Avalon, the two most essential piece's of my rig. Bayou if you want to meet me at Low Down someday to check out the Avalon, PM me. I play alot of churchs and the biggest improvment in my sound came when I bought my U5. It amazes me how people will spend three grand on a bass and four grand on an amp and put there signal thru some piece of crap direct box that is sending less then half there sound to the board. One of my pet peaves, Unless your goal is just to sound good to your self on stage, they are absolutly essential. And I'm not being a shill for Avalon there are other good units out there!
     
  11. Bayou_Brawler

    Bayou_Brawler The most hurtful thing ever realized

    Oct 23, 2003
    Ann Arbor, MI
    let me make sure i got this right. btw i use a deep impact and a mutron.

    option 1: the sound guy mics my speaker i start using my effects and changing my tone that will probably screw the sound guys mix up. so i need to work with him before the show and sound check the effects.

    option 2: use a DI and get no tone or effect control.

    is that it?
     
  12. appler

    appler Guest

    Yeah, you're right. My bad. I edited my post after I realized this. Thanks a lot for that information, man, it was a big help.
     
  13. burk48237

    burk48237 Supporting Member

    Nov 22, 2004
    Oak Park, MI
    Option #3,Bayou you can run most Direct boxs after your effects, Which I do with my Avalon. You can also run off the back end of some amps post EQ, Which I find unecessary with the Avalon, It's a better Pre then the Edens! What I do is run my Avalon after my effects and basically just use my Eden Eq for the stage sound. I'd love to check out that Deep Impact before your Houston bound, I've heard lots of good about them!
     
  14. Bayou_Brawler

    Bayou_Brawler The most hurtful thing ever realized

    Oct 23, 2003
    Ann Arbor, MI
    i'll actually be in MI for a looooooong time....i need to update that. and yes the deep impact is awesome

    i have and effects loop deal on the back of my amp......i'm not sure if it's post or pre EQ