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a confusing question...

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by spidersbass, Nov 30, 2004.


  1. spidersbass

    spidersbass

    Nov 29, 2004
    Downtown L.A.
    alright, i have a hartke HA4000 (400 watts, 8 ohms) and a VX410 (4 ohms), the total output is 300 watts... but i want more BOOM in my rig. i have 2 subwoofer speakers (600 watts each) that i added to my rig, and i don't think the head is pushing enough power to all the speakers. what can i add to my rig to add some extra power so the speakers can be pushed to its full potential? :eyebrow:
     
  2. Speaker design is always a compromise, and sub woofers are often less sensitive than conventional speakers, in order to make them work in a smaller box. On that basis, your subs may be taking their fair share of power, but not giving you enough sound in return.

    My starting point would be to borrow another amp and try a bi-amped setup, where you can turn up/down the subs independently of the 4x10.

    If that doesn't give you a sound that you like, start thinking about crossovers, to make sure that each speaker only gets the part of the signal it handles best.
     
  3. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    ok, you gotta help us out here
    tell us what the hartke puts out at 8 ohms, at 4 ohms, and at 2 ohms (if it can safely drive 2 ohms), and if it is stereo or mono. the vx 410 is 4 ohms, but how many watts rms is it rated for? and the subwoofers can handle 600 watts each? how many ohms is each individual subwoofer cabinet?
     
  4. spidersbass

    spidersbass

    Nov 29, 2004
    Downtown L.A.
    at 8 ohms, the VX410 handles 300 watts, and so does the HA4000. at 4 ohms, the VX410 handles 400 watts, and so does the HA4000. its stereo i think, pretty sure its stereo. the subwoofers handle 600 watts each, and they come in the same cabinet (but each one is individually wired), but i dont' know what their ohms are, their competition speakers meant for cars.
     
  5. I'd recommend you read the Ohms FAQ to help you understand a few things....then read my response here...

    Is your 410 speaker cab 4 ohm or 8 ohms? It can't be both, it's one or the other. If it's 4 ohm, your amp is capable of providing its maximum rated power (400 watts) into the single cabinet. You can't hook up any more speakers because the amp can't go lower than 4 ohms. I didn't think the HA4000 was bi-ampable (what you're referring to as stereo) but I could be wrong.

    Car subs are terribly inefficient and their frequency response isn't ideal for a music speaker.
     
  6. Your biggest problem here is the mis-matching of car audio subs with bass guitar speakers.

    The loudness of a speaker is determined by its sensitivity, not its power handling capability.

    The average sensitivity of a bass guitar speaker is about 95db@1w/1m.

    The average sensitivity of a car audio subwoofer is about 85db@1w/1m. I don't have enough room on the board to explain exactly what this all means so I'll try to keep it short. The higher sensitivity of the bass guitar speaker means it will be louder than the car audio subwoofer when they are running off of the same amplifier (by quite a bit).

    To make your system more balanced you would need to add a separate power amplifier for your car audio subs. Now here's the scary part. You would need something like a 2000w power amp hooked up to the subs to compete volume-wise with 100w pushed into the bass guitar speakers.

    HHHMMMMMMM! You're probably better off getting different speakers. It would be a lot cheaper!
     
  7. Stephen Soto

    Stephen Soto

    Oct 12, 2003
    Why do you need to use all of those cabs?
     
  8. spidersbass

    spidersbass

    Nov 29, 2004
    Downtown L.A.
    well, i think i can give more balls to my rig, so i wanna add these 2 10" woofers ( http://qpowerinc.com/qPower/speakers.asp they are the chrome speakers). and i either want to just add those 2 woofers to my rig, or take out 2 speakers from my cab and replace those 2 with the 2 woofers and see how it would sound.
     
  9. spidersbass

    spidersbass

    Nov 29, 2004
    Downtown L.A.
    i read the ohms faq and couldn't find my asnwer... the 410 is 8 ohms. and the 2 woofers i want to put in are 4 ohms each. keep the advice coming!
     
  10. seanm

    seanm I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize! Supporting Member

    Feb 19, 2004
    Ottawa, Canada
    I don't think you read MuzikMan's reply carefully. Car subwoofers make terrible bass guitar speakers. They are inefficient and are designed to work within an enclosed space (a car) to get any volume. :scowl:
     
  11. spidersbass

    spidersbass

    Nov 29, 2004
    Downtown L.A.
    there not necessarily just for cars, you just usually find these certain ones in cars, but they work for pretty much anything. my friend used them on his DJ rig and they worked really great. and my bro put these on his stereo system, again, great! so i'm gonna try 'em for my bass.
     
  12. seanm

    seanm I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize! Supporting Member

    Feb 19, 2004
    Ottawa, Canada
    Go fo it. Experimentation is always good. I just think you will be disappointed with the results.

    Down and dirty solution: Since the subs are 4 ohm, I would wire them in series to get 8 ohms. Then wire the subs in parrallel with the the 410. This will give you 4 ohms, which your amp can easily handle.

    If you wire them all in series, you will get less power (not what you want). If you wire them all in parallel, you will probably fry the amp!

    Better solution: You should get a crossover and only send the lows to the subs.
     
  13. spidersbass

    spidersbass

    Nov 29, 2004
    Downtown L.A.
    i'll try the "down and dirty" version first, i like to get my hands dirty... but in case that don't work, whats a good crossover?
     
  14. spidersbass

    spidersbass

    Nov 29, 2004
    Downtown L.A.
    and won't using a crossover require me to have another amplifier just for the subs???
     
  15. A crossover is a circuit that splits your signal into higher frequencies and lower frequencies, so that you can feed different signals to different things.

    Some crossovers are made to go between the amp and the speakers (as in hifi speakers), and others are designed to go between a preamp and the amplifiers. Whether you are talking about high-power speaker crossovers, or road-capable signal-level crossovers, you are not talking pocket money. If you want to experiment, try and borrow before you buy.
     
  16. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    why does spider remind me of someone from strensall york, england??? ;)
     
  17. Sundogue

    Sundogue

    Apr 26, 2001
    Wausau, WI
    I have the HA4000 as well.

    It puts out 400 watts into a 4 ohm load. It only puts out a little over 200 watts into an 8 ohm load.

    But since you are using true subs, why noy get another power amp and use the "sub out" on the back of the HA4000 to feed a line into a sub power amp?

    The HA4000 has a built in crossover, using the sub out, with a cutoff of 100Hz. It will send anything below 100Hz to the sub power amp that will drive your subs.

    That way you can use the full power of your HA4000 for everything above 100Hz into a 4 ohm load and everything below 100Hz will be driven by a seperate, dedicated power amp to your subwoofers. Since subwoofers are usually inefficient and need lots of power, just get a seperate power amp (as big as you need) for your subs and use the "sub out" on the HA4000.

    Problem solved.
     
  18. spidersbass

    spidersbass

    Nov 29, 2004
    Downtown L.A.
    well, as much as i would love to buy a **** load of equipment, i just don't have that kinda money, thats why i'm trying to mickey mouse everything.

    i looked at this crossover, http://www.nadywireless.com/products/product_pgs/cx_pg1.html but i think i need another amplifier just for powering the subs, is that right? if thats right, then whats another crossover where i wouldn't need another amplifier just for the subs, and i could still send all the lows to the subs???
     
  19. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    there isn't any such animal.
    using an active crossover is going to require a power amp after it - period.
     
  20. spidersbass

    spidersbass

    Nov 29, 2004
    Downtown L.A.
    damnet!!!! alright then mike, or anyone, do you guys know the polarities on a 1/4" cable? is the tip positive or negative? know what i'm talking about?