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A Crazy Idea with the House DI???

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by jokerjkny, Apr 14, 2005.


  1. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    hey all,

    so, i was thinking. to get around the whole "jensen-less" DI of the HBP-1, i could theorectically take an unbalanced out of the back from the preamp and run it into my Demeter VTDB-2B floor box, no?

    and then i thought, most place i play force me to use the Countryman DI they have on the floor. instead of plugging into my bass, then running my signal to my preamp, why dont i just send an unbalanced out from my preamp to the house DI?

    should be ok, no? besides sending my bass' tone, i'd also be providing the house my preamp's fat tone as well.

    thoughts?
     
  2. Yes, I have been thinking a similar thing to get that nice tube tone from the preamp...

    there is also this issue that some amp DI outs are not protected against phantom power... could this setup protect the amp's DI from the Phantom power?
     
  3. jondog

    jondog

    Mar 14, 2002
    NYC metro area
    It's not crazy, go for it. I did that for 2 years -- to avoid the soundguys who wanted to use their DI instead of mine, I mounted my DI in my rack and brought my own xlr cable and stood next to the snake and said what channel do you want the bass in? That pretty much forced them to at least try my preamp's tone and I never had any soundguy make me change to his DI.
     
  4. zombywoof5050

    zombywoof5050

    Dec 20, 2001
    Absolutely!
    And if you like to really crank your pre for lots of tube-ness, this is where the -15dB pad (which my Radial JDI Duplex has) comes in handy, so the signal to the board is not too hot.
     
  5. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    That's what I've always done. Most sound engineers look pleasantly surprised when you pass them an XLR lead and tell them it's your DI out. Some DI's are too hot for cheaper mixing desks - the one in my Peavey Sessionbass was - so it can help to have some sort of gain control or pad on it.

    Alex
     
  6. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member

    should be ok, no? besides sending my bass' tone, i'd also be providing the house my preamp's fat tone as well.

    thoughts?


    It'll work fine if it's not too hot for the Countryman, assuming the sound guy goes along with it, and has enough EQ available to get what he needs in the FOH. Your "fat tone" may be his mud though, it really depends on the band context as much as the room and PA. I've had great results doing this for jazz guitarists, and up and down results for bass players, but I'm always willing to try whatever a player wants, and I've been known to jump onstage and play a bit to illustrate what's going on in the house.

    I often get asked to DI from in front of the amp, even though most of my gear has nice DIs, so I just built a Jensen box myself. It's essentially equivalent to an uglier Radial passive box, minus a feature or two, for an outlay of around half the cash.

    The Jensen DI transformer costs $65, and building one into most full sized rack preamps is not all that hard. Jensen sells their own DIs as well, FWIW.

    I only wish someone would present a Countryman to me on stage at a gig. Usually I see much worse. One guy last year had the Radials, which I like a lot. Most of the clubs I mix in have pretty so-so DIs, so I tend to be more open to using the player's send rather than playing Bad Nanny. ;)
     
  7. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member

    An isolation transformer will provide protection, but if the amp's DI is already at mike level, a standard passive DI box wouldn't be the best choice. It would knock down the already low level signal another 20-40dB, typically. There are plenty of isolation boxes that would be a better match though.
     
  8. dood

    dood

    Dec 9, 2004
    sitting down,facingforward..UK
    Endorsements: Shuker Guitars, Dingwall Designer Guitars, D'Addario, Planet Waves, Barefaced Bass
    Yeah! tell me about it!! They look even more surprised when you hand them 2 XLRs and say this is the Bass DI, Red is Right, Black is Left! ;o)
     
  9. zombywoof5050

    zombywoof5050

    Dec 20, 2001
    Uh-Oh, don't even bring up 'stereo', most of the players here (whom I've seen discuss stereo rigs) just dismiss them as not worth the effort.
     
  10. dood

    dood

    Dec 9, 2004
    sitting down,facingforward..UK
    Endorsements: Shuker Guitars, Dingwall Designer Guitars, D'Addario, Planet Waves, Barefaced Bass
    *LOL* well, it's fair to say that I have certainly had a good few live *engineers* that were off with me, because I'd asked for my rig to go stereo. I say *engineers* as most of them just didn't *get it* if you know what I mean! I run effects and stuff, and as the band, typically is a three piece, it makes for filling the sound out and giving a good audio experience for the listener. Engineers beware!! Dood is on the way!! ;o)
     
  11. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member

    So, how do you handle PAs that run in mono? I used to use a stereo rig a lot, and I found that splitting one side to the stage and one to FOH worked pretty well in that situation, FWIW.
     
  12. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    thx guys,

    lots of great thoughts here. :cool:

    guess i'll just have to heed the soundmen. lord knows i wouldnt want them touching the "suck" knob! :smug:
     
  13. dood

    dood

    Dec 9, 2004
    sitting down,facingforward..UK
    Endorsements: Shuker Guitars, Dingwall Designer Guitars, D'Addario, Planet Waves, Barefaced Bass
    Just the same!! works a treat! :cool:
     
  14. dood

    dood

    Dec 9, 2004
    sitting down,facingforward..UK
    Endorsements: Shuker Guitars, Dingwall Designer Guitars, D'Addario, Planet Waves, Barefaced Bass
    Absolutely! I know what you mean. This takes into account the 'Engineer' who knows what he/she is doing.. not the ones i had been refering to!

    My rig, or rather it's sound, is based around bass tone and preamp sounds. My DI goes out pre stage amp EQ. I set up a fairly flat EQ for my valvey tone, slap the FX on and that lot goes out to DI. The actual on stage rig is more of a giant monitor than a 'tone generating animal'. I can EQ/Level that without affecting what goes to the PA. Also, the signal which goes out is ran thro' a studio compressor so hopefully the signal the Engineer is getting is also pretty consistant.

    I have had larger venue PA guys come up and basically say "Ah! didn't need to do much with your bass, everything is there already!" which, humbly, I think is pretty cool.

    One thing I will say tho' is I have my singer to thank for this, as he is a studio engineer and PA type. (Cheers Rich!)
    We spent a while getting it right, and pre programmed.
     
  15. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    How far away is the Mixing desk? The problem with unbalanced signals is thay lose their strength with distance travelled. If the desk is right near the stage, no problem. If the desk is right at the back of a large room, maybe problem.
     
  16. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member

    I think he's expecting the house DI box to be maybe 3 feet from the preamp, no? :cool:
     
  17. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    but of course!

    DI's are usually right on the floor in front of my feet. as to the condition they're in? well, lets just say, most clubs in NYC usually do their best to test the "run over by a truck" survival claim by Countryman. :)