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A Crossroads: Accugroove Bill Dickens 212 or a Pair of Tri210L's

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by MWBass, Jun 24, 2005.

  1. MWBass


    Jun 19, 2005
    Belford, NJ
    Ok, I had made a post a few days ago about all of my problems with finding my sound cabinetwise. I have been able to do a lot of testing at a shop near my house since then. I have decided that I love the Accugroove cabinets through the Eden WT-800B that I just acquired, which I love by the way. I played through an El Whoppo, which sounded great, but it weas a bit boomy in the loww mids for my taste, but I loved the deep bottom, and the top end is perfect for my ear.

    Given that I am a percussive player, lots of slap and tap, with mixed fingerstyle, I would like to know which of the following setups everyone thinks I should go for. I have narrowed it to these two:

    Accugroove Bill Dickens 212 Signature 1000 w cab recieving 1100 watts at 4 ohms from an Eden WT-800B

    A PAir of Accugroove Tri210L's at 600 watts a piece recieving 1100 watts at 4 ohms from an Eden WT-800B

    Just want to get your thoughts, thanks.

  2. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    Based on my readings, I'd say a Whappo Jr. The BD is reputed to have a less flat response with added low mid oomph, whilst I believe the Tri210L cabs don't have quite the depth and clarity of the Jr but lean more towards midrange punch. Subtle differences I expect, especially from the high mids upwards (though the BD has a different midrange driver).

    I'd wait to see what Mr McWhappo says, though...

  3. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    DFW, Texas
    Now there's a tough decision to have to make.

    If portability is not an issue, I'd lean towards the BD.

    If portability is an issue, another option to consider would be a Tri 112 + Tri 210.
  4. J.Wolf

    J.Wolf Gear Reviewer - Bass Musician Magazine

    Apr 29, 2003
    Asheville, NC
    hmm. I've heard both of these cabs quite a bit. It's true, the BD cab is voiced a little differently. Its a pretty aggressive tone, a bit more focused than the quad series, and my perception is that it is definitley louder than their other cabs. here's my simplified take on it:

    2x210: very loud!, very portable, classic super deep accugroove tone.

    BD cab: very very loud!, heavier cab, more aggressive tone with more voicing in the mid frequencies.

    something like that. thats a tough decision, I'd have to go with the 210's. It's just more flexible. Even better, a whappo jr. and 210 (man oh man). Thats a popular combo. For me, I don't think I'd get a BD top cab unless I paired it with a BD sub. that rig is just insane. I've never heard anything better than that as far as a two cab bass stack.

    I would also be curious to hear from Marcus McWhappo regarding which setup he thinks would be perceived to be louder, given the amp head you mentioned.

    good luck, I don't think you could go wrong!!
  5. MWBass


    Jun 19, 2005
    Belford, NJ
    I just realized something before. I was hauling my rig down into the basement and it really pissed me off. I am currently playing through 2 Eden 410XLT's and I have a rack case that weighs almost 100 pouns as well. It takes me 4 trips to get all of my stuff moved and I hate it. I basically decided that I would like to have a one cab does it all type situation. I was trying to convince Tom Bowlus to sell me his Euphonic Audio CxL-210 because there is another one at a store near here. They sound great, completely clear and accurate, but that would still be four trips at almost the same weight ( cabs are 80 pounds).

    I truly would like to make just 2 trips. I don't care if the cab is heavy. As long as it has casters I'll only have to carry it up stairs, which I am easily capable of doing by myself. I just want to cut down on the trips. I want to be in and out.

    That being said I realize there are only a few ways to do this:

    (Bear in mind I am replacing two eden 410XLT's that were run at 1100 watts a piece off of a QSC PLX 3402)

    1.) Accugroove Bill Dickens 212 run off of an Eden WT-800 at 1100 watts or use a Demeter HBP-1 into a stewart world 2.1 and hit it with 2100 watts.

    2.) Accugroove Whoppo Junior run off of an Eden WT-800 at 1100 watts or use a Demeter HBP-1 into a stewart world 2.1 and hit it with 2100 watts.

    3.) Accugroove El Whoppo with the same powering situation..

    4.) Schroeder 310212 run off of a Demeter HBP-1 into a stewart world 2.1 at 2100 watts.

    As I have said before I am a strict 4 string player and a percussive player, slapping and tapping 75 percent of the time. I love extreme clarity and accuracy but want to maintain that thick low end thump when I hit the bottom.
    I have demoed an EA cxl-210 and an Accugroove El Whoppo through the Eden WT-800B at 1100 watts, ( just for tone, the whoppo obviously would be louder)and this is what I found:

    The EA was extremely clean and accurate. But the whoppo had an incredible bottom end. So full and thumpy. But I noticed when I had that full bottom good for some good thumping, when I switched to fingerstyle around the second octave, it got extremely boomy. What I'm looking to try and get is that big thump on the bottom, with clear not harsh highs, while still retaining complete accuracy throughout all styles of playing, and obviously nice stage volumes. I don't need to be as loud as the 2 410XLT's, I used them both so that I didn't have to drive the cabs to hard, because they sounded like ass driven too hard. But, I want soomthing that is going to allow me to be heard in a band situation with two guitars drums and vocals...

    Ok, that being said, I realize the choices I posted above are pretty much the best options. Any thoughts anyone...
  6. MWBass


    Jun 19, 2005
    Belford, NJ
    I think I'm going to post this as a new thread....
  7. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    Fremont, Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Going by our past discussions, I still think you really need to give the Whappo, Jr. a listen. And, conversely, I still need to hear a Bill Dickens cab (either one)! :p
  8. MWBass


    Jun 19, 2005
    Belford, NJ
    Yeah Tom, I agree. I am just worried that the Junior isn't going to be loud enough on its own, but it could be i just don't feel like buying and returning another cab.

    Then I got mark from accugroove and Jake Wolf telling me that the pair of 210L's would probably be the best bet, but that the Bill dickens is probably the loudest of them all...

    I dunno, I'm just confused, I just know that I do like the tweeters in the Accugrooves. At least I got that going for me...
  9. Joelc73

    Joelc73 Supporting Member

    Nov 13, 2000
    New York
    The Jr. is plenty loud for most of the gigs that us mere mortals will do. I've yet to encounter a gig where a single Jr. didn't cut it for me. The Jr. is also relatively portable and truely is a "one cab does all" solution. I was skeptical but I became a believer after one rehearsal. Two Tri-210's, however, would give you a bit more flexibility should you need it. I've really become a "one trip from the car" kind of guy though so I'd probably lean towards a single cab if it were me. I've had my share of gigs where I'm be making 5 and 6 trips back and fourth from the club to the car at 3:00 AM and now I try and avoid that at all costs whenever possible!
  10. MWBass


    Jun 19, 2005
    Belford, NJ
    Yeah I see your point...

    It just worries me because in the past I was playing with a hard rock/melodic metal band with two guitarists with mesa boogie half stacks and I was always gettin drowned out.

    If you wanna here some of the music you can go to...

    It was recorded a long time ago but It gives you an idea of the band I was in and I have also advanced as a player a lot since then, thus I am more concerned about my sound.

    I don't know whats going on with the band anymore, we haven't seen eachother or practiced in a month, so it sounds like its dying off.

    I might be starting a new project with some friends this summer that is more of a funkier version of ben folds but a little more progressive, but i dunno...

    Anyway, quick question... If I were to go with the Junior, should I hit it head on with exactly 800 whats of clean accurate power like the EA iAMP800, give it some more juice but gain a little warmth via an Eden WT-800B, or should I slam it with like 2100 watts from a stewart world with a good pre?
  11. MWBass


    Jun 19, 2005
    Belford, NJ
  12. MWBass


    Jun 19, 2005
    Belford, NJ
    I have a solo in the middle of the song Captivity of One...
  13. J.Wolf

    J.Wolf Gear Reviewer - Bass Musician Magazine

    Apr 29, 2003
    Asheville, NC
    I use an HBP-1 and a crest poweramp with my Accugroove cabs, and I really like the depth and clarity of that setup. A higher wattage amp would help me alot though. My el Whappo runs fine with 700 watts @ 4 ohms from my crest amp, but I have heard the el whappo with twice the wattage and more, and its just incredible.

    I say, use the PLX3402 with two Whappo jr.s and call it a day :)
  14. kjones


    Dec 4, 2004
    I hope this helps your concerns:

    I've played outdoors, not going thru the FOH, only cabinet was a Whappo, Jr. (with a WWU), FOUR guitar players onstage, drummer, playing Going Down.

    I had zero problem being heard. I was nowhere near turned all the way up. The cabinet was in no distress, except of course for the fact that I was playing thru it, instead of, say, Tim Bogert. Volume isn't the issue that should drive this decision. The tone you're going for, what you want to hump around, and similar things should be the issue.
  15. MWBass


    Jun 19, 2005
    Belford, NJ
    So, I have come to a conclusion...

    From my testing I have decided that I love the accuracy of a Euphonic Audio CxL-210, that is my favorite cab by EA. But when I AB'd it against the Accugroove El Whoppo, I preferred the Full thick thump on the bottom of the El Whoppo as well as the highs of all accugroove cabs, my favorite to date. But, the El Whoppo was a bit boomy for my taste in the low mids. So, I realized that If I got a junior or a pair of Tri210L's I would lower that boominess while still retaining the aspects of the accugroove I love, accuracy, clarity, and truthfulness of my bass tone. I realized that if I went for the tri210L's I would loose that four way perfectly flat studio monitor sound of the El Whoppo. So, the Junior would be my best bet. But I was fearful of volume. Then Jake said why not two of them. That's it... 2 Whoppo Jr's.

    I realized that hauling the two whoppo Jr's would be less weight than transporting my 410XLT's (over 30 pounds a piece and in the same sized box), less then the two EA CxL-210's by more than 10 pounds a piece, and would only be ten pounds more a piece than the pair of Tri210L's, which I strongly considered. And as for volume and tone, It would crush the others by a longshot. Yeah, one might be enough, but with a pair I would never be at a loss in volume, and If I end up liking just one, I will always have a backup.

    So, I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who suggested the Juniors. Tom Bowlus has been telling me for a few days to really check it out and give them a chance and Jake Wolf suggested the pair and it kinda just made sense after that. Yeah, I'm not going to be cutting down on trips, but It just seems like the right decision. I'm excited.

    By the way Jake, I went to your website a few months ago and absolutely dug the samples of your music. It's got a really nice feel to it with lots of character and passion behind every note. Congrats man.

    In addition, I was considering getting a new power amp, like a Stewart World 2.1 which is renowned in the bass world, but I realized with my QSC PLX 3402 I can run both of the 800 watt cabs at 1100 watts without even bridging the amp. Talk about clean power! Also, the PLX is almost as light as the Stewrt (21 lb.). Also Jake, I don't know if you recorded through your Demeter HBP-1, but that part in Parallax View where you run down that scale, hit the low B and then strike that harmonic, reminded me of Jaco so much, it sold me on the Demeter HBP-1.

    So, thanks a lot guys. I finally have confidence that I am going to get the tone I have been dreaming of. I'm proud to be a TB'r.

    Ok, that was gay and I'm tired. later on...
  16. J.Wolf

    J.Wolf Gear Reviewer - Bass Musician Magazine

    Apr 29, 2003
    Asheville, NC

    Thanks for the kind words, I'm glad you dug my music. I recorded those tracks both direct from the HBP-1, and also miking a tri 110, and a tri 112 in a really nice room. I'd say it's about 80% direct signal on the tracks.

    The new jr's with the neo drivers are awesome. They are really surprisingly light to boot, and with two, I can't imagine wanting anything more. You can also stack them upright or on their sides for some tonal variations. With the way you describe your experiences with the el whappo, the jr. sounds perfect for your needs.

    Now I'm jealous of that rig for sure.


    check out my website
  17. Whappo Grande

    Whappo Grande

    Feb 9, 2002
    Santa Clara, CA.
    Manager: AccuGroove Speakers
    Instead of posting here I talked with MWBass off line. I prefer to let people hear as much as they can from other player’s valuable input on this fine forum. If we hadn't talked off line, I certainly would have posted.

    BTW; a double Jr. with cheese is a great choice!!

    AccuGroove Cabinets
  18. MODNY

    MODNY Guest

    Nov 9, 2004
    my next purchase is going to be possibly a El whappo to pair up with my current tri210l

    i wanted to get a power amp and send 1000 watt/ side to these cabs...
    then get some kind of pre amp, like an aguilar or EBS, or even a glock.

    this way i can still use the 2 10 for small gigs, the whappo for larger gigs, and the 2 paired together to scare people.

    i think it would be deadly....
  19. Whappo Grande

    Whappo Grande

    Feb 9, 2002
    Santa Clara, CA.
    Manager: AccuGroove Speakers
    So does everyone else that has heard or played this rig (El Whappo & Tri 210L) live.

    AccuGroove, Home Of Scary Speaker Cabs

  20. dood


    Dec 9, 2004
    hey! well, I have been watching this thread with glee! I am looking to pair my TRI210l with another cab. It has taken me a while to sort out funds n' eveything.. Whappo or Jr could be just the ticket!