Dismiss Notice

Psst... Ready to join TalkBass and start posting, make new friends, sell your gear, and more?  Register your free account in 30 seconds.

A Louder Acme / A Lighter Ampeg PR410HLF?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Aaron, Feb 26, 2006.


  1. Aaron

    Aaron

    Jun 2, 2001
    Bellingham, WA
    I've been playing some gigs recently where my 2x Acme B2s being powered with 1700 watts haven't been cutting it for volume. I like the tone and love the lowend response of the cabs, so something similar in that regard would be nice. I'm open to other cabs as far as tone is considered, but I don't want to sacrifice the lowend response of the Acmes. I played through an Ampeg PR-410 HLF and loved it, but at 128 lbs and fairly bulky, it is not an option as I live in an apartment on the second level. I wouldn't mind having a 410 + 115/118, as long as it fits into my Audi A6. As far as price is considered, it isn't that big of a deal, I'd like to get the cabs for less than $1k used. So I guess I'm looking for a much lighter Ampeg PR-410 HLF or a much louder Acme.
     
  2. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    schroeder

    from what i'm told, no problems being heard whatsoever.
     
  3. Eric Cioe

    Eric Cioe

    Jun 4, 2001
    Missoula, MT
    From what I'm told, they don't necessarily have the low end response that he's looking for. They seem to be more of a mid-voiced cabinet.

    I think an Eden 410XST might be right up your alley. Bottom end on the XSTs is nice, and it is more portable than the Ampeg.
     
  4. seanm

    seanm I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize! Supporting Member

    Feb 19, 2004
    Ottawa, Canada
    I tried out an Acme B2 and I loved it. The speaker movement is hypnotic. But it took everything my iAMP 500 had just for practices :scowl:

    You might want to try the EA CXL-112. They take EQ very well and have lots of bottom. They are also *way* more efficient than the Acme. Easily less than $1,000US new.

    However, try them first. They are not for everybody. They ended up not being for me. I switched to wizzys, which are more mid heavy. The band members acutally commented on "more lows" from the wizzys.
     
  5. Aaron

    Aaron

    Jun 2, 2001
    Bellingham, WA
    Well - I think I'm more so looking for an efficient 410 + 115/18 stack. I've been playing with a couple LOUD bands- for example a rhodes player that uses 2 Yamaha 215 PA cabs. As far as cab weight goes, I think they probably have to be under 80lbs. Anyone recommend any neodynium cabs if I'm looking for some huge lowend? The Avatar neo 410 seems to be the lightest on the market at 65 lbs, but does anyone have any experience in how they compare to Acmes?
     
  6. Triclops

    Triclops Guest

    Jan 14, 2006
    do you're rsearch on specs and you won'nt go wrong:eyebrow: ..............man.
     
  7. Aaron

    Aaron

    Jun 2, 2001
    Bellingham, WA
    Sorry if I missed it if you were being sarcastic.

    Specs can be deceiving and they don't tell you anything about how they will sound in live settings. According to specs, my AI contra should have a wider lowend response than my Acmes, but that isn't the case. I can't tell much about how cabs will sound from what other people say, but it at least points me in a decent direction so I know some cabs to look out for.
     
  8. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    My inclination would be to pair a more midrange oriented cabinet with one or both of the Acmes, to give you the punch you're missing. Even something small like a Schroeder Mini 12+ should give you the honk and cut you need to be heard, whilst the Acmes can continue to push out big bottom.

    Then again, if you can't be heard with two B2s with that many watts behind them, I suggest your band is too loud and would sound better if everyone simply turned down. Any vocalists will particularly appreciate this!

    Alex
     
  9. Richard Lindsey

    Richard Lindsey

    Mar 25, 2000
    Metro NYC
    If you like Acmes, why don't you use two B-4s? They weigh, what, maybe 60-someodd pounds each, and you'll get more volume with the same power. If you were willing the consider a 4-10 plus 1-15/18 stack, two B-4s wouldn't be much (if any) worse.
     
  10. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    holy crap, with enough wattage that would be MASSIVE.
     
  11. Lonnybass

    Lonnybass Supporting Member

    Jul 19, 2000
    Minneapolis by way of Chicago
    Endorsing Artist: Pedulla Basses
    You know, I was running a similar setup for a long time. Since my switch over to a Schroeder stack, it's become a lot easier to hear myself without excessive EQ tweaking. They do give up a little bit of pant-flappin' boom to the Acme's when digging in on low B string notes - but just a little, and the notes still have plenty of definition. Overall the Schroeders seem like a much louder Acme - and the 1210 is the same size box as a B2.

    Lonnybass
     
  12. Aaron

    Aaron

    Jun 2, 2001
    Bellingham, WA
    I was thinking about it, but I don't run into many B4s, and I'm not entirely sure they will fit in my car. I'll have to take some measurements. What about a B4 + a B4w? Would 1700 watts be enough?
     
  13. Richard Lindsey

    Richard Lindsey

    Mar 25, 2000
    Metro NYC
    Personally, I think the B-4W would be a waste of time. You can always turn off a tweeter if you have it but don't need it, but you can't generate it if you need it and don't have it.

    Whether 1700 W would be enough depends on you and your playing context. It's about how loud you need to play and with what tone. You'll be louder with 1700 W into two B-4s than you were into two B-2s. Not twice as loud, but somewhat louder. Don't get caught up in the underpowering-the-cab myth.

    Size might (or might not) be an issue; the B-4 is smaller than many 4-10s (e.g., Eden 410XLT), but not all. I think the Schroeder is smaller, and the Epi UL may be. Also, apparently the B-4 weighs a bit more than I mistakenly said; it's more like 78 lb. According to the site, the dimensions are "26.5"H x 23"W x 16.5"D."
     
  14. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    Bearing in mind that a single Acme 10" moves as much air as 2-3 typical 10" woofers, and a similar amount to a typical 15", the problem is not one of the amount of bottom you have. You need more midrange and adding extra woofers by going to B4 cabs won't really do that.

    If you're willing to give up bottom you could go to more midrangey cabs, or you could just add a midrangey cab to your existing rig, with a low cut filter on it to protect it from having to handle too much bottom.

    I'd expect a quality and efficient single 12" cab to be able to put out the midrange you need, as long as you protect it from over-excursion.

    Are you using low cut filters and limiters on the Acmes? That'll get you another few dB of output, as will intelligent EQing to bring in the midrange you need to be heard in such a loud environment. Can you unplug some of your keyboardist's cabs?!!

    Alex
     
  15. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    I was particularly impressed at how similar an Epi UL-112 sounded to an Acme Low-B2. Not as thick and deep in the bottom but apart from that remarkably similar sounding. Based on that, a stack of those should do a fine job. Unfortunately they'll cost a lot!

    What's your current amp? Can you run the Acmes off one side and some other cabs off the other?

    Alex
     
  16. ibz

    ibz

    Apr 14, 2005
    Columbus, OH
    Smart use of eq may get you more milage with your current setup.

    As well as having an "optimum gain" setting on your preamp. I"m not sure if that's the right term, but it's where it's not distorting the tubes, but your feeding your poweramp with a strong and IMO better sounding signal.

    This is why some Trace Elliot and other manufacturer's amps have LED or UV meter's to visually see the "optimum gain" setting when your adjusting the input gain. Different basses, have different outputs so how you dial your gain knob should be unique to the bass.
     
  17. If you are seriously willing to haul that much real estate, consider replacing the Acmes with a Tuba 30 and a DR280 sitting on top.

    This will give you the low end you require, and dismebowel folks in front of the band stand. With 1700 watts, it will devour a Schroeder or Eden without breaking a sweat.

    The little Tuba 24 I just finished has a single 10" car sub in it, and it keeps up with my son-in-law's Ampeg 610HLF without running out of gas.

    A Tuba 30 or Tuba 36 with optimum driver has *much* more Moxie than my little Tuba 24 and car sub. For the record, I'm in building two Tuba 36 and a pair of DR280. The T36 are monsters, and require a 5x8 cargo trailer or similar for cartage.
     
  18. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    then again, 12" speakers just wont punch like 10" speakers, which is a big reason why i never took the Epi UL112 stack route.
     
  19. Aaron

    Aaron

    Jun 2, 2001
    Bellingham, WA
    Can anyone give a comparison between the Avatar Neo 410s (maybe 212s) and Acmes? They seem to be far louder, but at the same time, even lighter than the acmes. How does the low end compare?