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a ? re T Bowlus' basement

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Crockettnj, Mar 13, 2006.


  1. Crockettnj

    Crockettnj

    Sep 2, 2005
    North NJ
    OK, so picture many cabs of different size and style in the same relatively small room. Maybe a small club with 4 or 5 guitar cabs, 2 bass cabs, 4 monitors, and then umpteen house mains/subs.

    now, turn ALL of them off except for 1 kickass bass cab. drive it. Loud.

    Wont the speakers in the OTHER cabs resonate due to the sound from the one cab that is working? will there be a percievable sound from this?

    a source of mud?

    should./would th esame be true if they are now "on" and being driven by their respective amps?

    i am pictureing the bowlus GTG and all those cabs/amps running, and wonder if htey will sound different due to cab resonance (idle cabs) in the small room.
     
  2. DEVILMAN

    DEVILMAN

    Nov 24, 2001
    New York,NY
    ...ummmm, IME, I doubt it very much...

    ~S~
     
  3. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    It's not that small, really, and no, I do not think that this is an appreciable factor.

    Tom.
     
  4. I think that carpet had more of an impact than what you are describing... but that was more of a vibe thing:D
     
  5. ibz

    ibz

    Apr 14, 2005
    Columbus, OH
    Lol, That carpet is classic. I think it won over Nino's wood floor a while back. :ninja:
     
  6. vision

    vision It's all about the groove! Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2005
    Ann Arbor, MI
    +1

    It is a pretty big basement...much larger than alot of music stores where there are just as many idle cabs sitting around. I don't think this was a factor.
     
  7. DEVILMAN

    DEVILMAN

    Nov 24, 2001
    New York,NY
    @Crockettnj,

    Did you ever experience what you speak/preach about???...

    ~S~
     
  8. el_Kabong

    el_Kabong

    Jul 11, 2005
    Interesting question! The ported cabs are effectively helmholtz resonators (tuned absorbers). Whether the fact that they are loaded with speakers which can move (obviously!) in response to pressure variations 'disables' their performance as resonator I don't know.
     
  9. Interceptor

    Interceptor Supporting Member

    Mar 29, 2005
    Madison, WI
    I recall visiting a high-end stereo shop in Chicago years ago that demonstrated the very audible influence of adding an unused speaker. I wouldn't say those guys were on the lunatic fringe, just influenced by Ivor...

    What I remember hearing was a slight loss of clarity and punch in the midbass region.

    There has to be some difference in sound, but the questions remain how much and would it change the basic flavor of a cab enough to invalidate the impressions? Hmmm, another ymmv situation.
     
  10. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    My guess is that it's less than what you experience by playing next to an acoustic drum kit (and not to say that it isn't a factor, just that it's not an overwhelming one).

    Tom.
     
  11. bucephylus

    bucephylus Supporting Member Commercial User

    Aug 18, 2002
    General Manager TecPadz LLC
    At most, the additional resonators would dampen the acoustics of the room. However, I would bet money in Las Vegas that the infamous carpet in fact does dampen the acoustics in the room more than the other drivers. By a good bit.
     
  12. Crockettnj

    Crockettnj

    Sep 2, 2005
    North NJ
    PREACH? it was a question. Not sure where you are coming from with that. sommetimes it's hard to get a bead on an internet posting.
     
  13. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    I'm sure you can read about this somewhere on the internet. I know I read about it in a book or mag ages ago before Al Gore was on the map ; }

    It's a real phenom but probably has little impact when plenty of power and speaker efficiency is there to counter it.
     
  14. Crockettnj

    Crockettnj

    Sep 2, 2005
    North NJ
    I didnt mean to direct the scope of the question specifically to tom's basement during the GTG. i reread it and see that is what it looks like.

    I agree that carpets vs bare floor, ime, helps tremendously.

    i mentioned tom's basement because a) i know people will respond to it!! and b) looking at the huge GTG pic post initially made me think about the other cabs resonating (like the drums set in my practice space).

    as for me experiencing this, i KNOW that it happens with drums. they shake and rattle when i play loud.

    i wasnt sure if the other speakers would act as passive radiators, thus damping (i really didnt consider this, as one of you posted) or if they would emphasize certain frequencies.

    So, let's remove Tom's basement form the discussion. do other cabs factor into room acoustics to any noticeable degree? i guess either way the result woudlnt be huge, or else i wouldnt be the first person asking about it.

    interesting point on the "high end audio" store. whether it is noticeable in a band setting is a different story, i suppose.

    (heimholz... isnnt that part of a CPR course or something?)





    (as for the basement being small, i clearly wasnt there. jsut goiing by the pics posted.)
     
  15. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    And what happens when an Accuswitch is in the room???? ; }

    OK.

    I know I can feel the two unplugged PA subwoofers in my room here react with the similarly tuned boxes that I have on my playback system. And I can hear the ports on them resonating and reach up inside and feel their cones vibrating.

    And did somebody say "Helmholtz"?
     
  16. jz0h4d

    jz0h4d

    Apr 26, 2005
    Yes you are absolutely right every other speaker in the room is vibrating with every note you play. All of those speakers help to "deaden" the sound in any room.
     
  17. BigMikeW

    BigMikeW Banned

    May 25, 2005
    Nashville, TN.
    Banned by TB Administration for refusal to account for funds

    I can see that carpet causing some problems. But mostly in a gastrointestinal way. Sorry Tom. Love ya but damn that carpet is baaaad! :D
     
  18. Yeah, "audio consultants" is rediculous. They have a high end room where there's 3,000 dollar cables just connecting the speakers to the power amp. Have to get a key to get in to this "high end" room and believe me, the rags I wear on my back ain't enough to let me in. They just set up a 1.2 million home audio system for a guy out in Lake Geneva last weekend. But if I lived in Lake Geneva I'd assume I'd have that amount of money to unburden myself with too. Guys that work there get off on being able to tell the difference between a $2,000 cd player and a $2,500 cd player. I personally can't but applaude them that they can. Go ahead and test them they can pass with flying colors between the different price ranges and not just brands *.

    Story about the resonators interestingly enough, is it's true about the speaker affecting the sound as much as many people would lambast and pout that it's not. Not necessarily just the tuned speakers, but the box itself. Old drums are fabled to have been used (similar concept as mentioned above) as detection devices of oncoming armies whether it be in the mountains or from digging underground as made popular by the recent mythbusters show.

    How much does it impact the sound? Not sure. No idea how much my kid brother listening to me play in the same room has an effect. To answer your question, yes, it does affect the sound. How much? I have no idea. "Some" is the answer, but my guess is "not much".

    * = yes, i've tested employees there before and they passed with flying colors. As another interesting side note, now this was not me but is from my friends dad, said they had a secretary in their office who wouldn't eat i think it was green m&ms. Everyone thought she was crazy. But she claimed to be able to taste the difference. They put her to the blind taste test and bam, 10/10. Now I have no claims as to the validity of the story since i don't know A) if it's really true besides honesty from the dad, or B) how they tested for real. But there's a point if nothing else. There's some crazy things in this world, and I'll give into the notion there might be some people able to detect the other things affecting the sound including other speakers... in the end, everything affects the sound. It's physics. That's why we have to re-EQ everynight and why soundmen are employed at venues. Open seats vs. seats with people in them drastically affects the sound. I see no reason to laugh at this thought or dismiss it, but I just don't put much water into it's weight in affecting the sound as much as the carpet or other reflective/absorbing surfces as others have mentioned. End of my opinion.
     
  19. vision

    vision It's all about the groove! Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2005
    Ann Arbor, MI
    lol! the carpet actually looks WAAAYYY better in person - in pics on here it looks like one of those 3D hidden image posters - its much more subdued in real life.
     
  20. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Here's my take on it:

    1) If the speakers in the other cabs are vibrating, they are doing so without any electrical energy passing through their voice coils. They therefore make no sound themselves.

    2) The ports on the other cabs may very well react to the slight movement of the speakers, but with no sound being produced by the speaker, there's nothing but wind coming through the port, and a very small amount at that. A port is a pressure device, so the more air movement inside the cab, the more work the port does. At these miniscule levels of speaker movement, the port is doing as close to nothing as is concievable.

    3) The frequencies which are causing the other speakers to vibrate are in the sub 100Hz range. They'e the ones that you "feel" more than you "hear". Even if the speaker itself is reproducing those frequencies, it will be doing so at a fraction of the acoustic power of the original signal. Any sound produced would be so insignificant, it's not worth worrying about.

    So as others have said, the carpet and the "bags of blood" would have more of an effect on the sound in the room than the other cabs.