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Accugroove - Acme?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Jim Dombrowski, Feb 26, 2008.


  1. Jim Dombrowski

    Jim Dombrowski Supporting Member

    Jan 16, 2002
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Just curious: Which of the Accugroove cabs would sound most like the Acme Low B2, or have similar characteristics?

    JD
     
  2. chucko58

    chucko58

    Jan 17, 2002
    Silicon Valley, CA, USA
    I paid for all my gear myself. Well, me and MasterCard.
    I've been fortunate enough to try several AccuGroove cabs next to my Acme Low B-2s. All of the AccuGroove cabs have much better midrange than my Acmes.

    I haven't tried the Tri 210L myself, but comments I've seen here and elsewhere make me think it probably sounds the most like a Low B-2.
     
  3. I don't think you'll find any Accugroove cabinets that sound like the Acme Low B series. If you're truly after even, flat response down to your Low B fundamental, you will get it from an Acme. You will not get anywhere close to that with a similar sized cabinet from Accugroove, though you will probably find the Accugroove louder (more sensitive) for a given power input.

    Just to avoid the flames, I am not saying one brand is better than the other. I will say, however, that Acme is one of the very few brands whose provided specifications are accurate.
     
  4. sobie18

    sobie18

    May 5, 2002
    Shaw AFB, SC
    What do they weigh?
     
  5. MODNY

    MODNY Guest

    Nov 9, 2004
    i'd love to have an acme
     
  6. Jim Dombrowski

    Jim Dombrowski Supporting Member

    Jan 16, 2002
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Thanks everyone for your frank and honest assements!

    JD
     
  7. Lonnybass

    Lonnybass

    Jul 19, 2000
    San Diego
    Endorsing Artist: Pedulla Basses
    B2 = about 42 lbs, give or take.

    Lonnybass
     
  8. Jim Dombrowski

    Jim Dombrowski Supporting Member

    Jan 16, 2002
    Colorado Springs, CO
    "B2 = about 42 lbs, give or take."

    Actually, closer to 50 lbs, but still very manageable.

    JD
     
  9. Lonnybass

    Lonnybass

    Jul 19, 2000
    San Diego
    Endorsing Artist: Pedulla Basses
    Sorry, 50 lbs. Must be all that exercise...they FEEL like 42 lbs...:)
     
  10. jady

    jady

    Jul 21, 2006
    Modesto, CA
    That's due to the 6"mid driver on all the Accugroove cabs.

    My El Whappo will do a pretty good job of reproducing the low F# on an ERB. The added mid driver actually can give the illusion of making the cabs sound like they have less lows but in fact what you are hearing is the "flat" sound. When you go from 10's to a tweeter there are a bunch of midrange fequencies that are missed. I get a huge low end out of mine.

    Not a flame at all though :D (even though I am biased, see my endorsers list) The Accugroove sound is pretty unique due to the cab within a cab design.
     
  11. Jim Dombrowski

    Jim Dombrowski Supporting Member

    Jan 16, 2002
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Jady, the Acme cabs are 3-way cabs with a 6" midrange driver.
     
  12. jady

    jady

    Jul 21, 2006
    Modesto, CA
    Cool, no one around here has any Acme cabs so I have never seen one. IMHO any cab with a mid driver will sound better than one without. :hyper:
     
  13. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    Whatever you might think, the reality is that the El Whappo does not reach down to low F# fundamental with any even remotely flat response. The impedance sweep that was posted here some years back during the AccuSwitch debacle proved that the tuning frequency was ~40Hz and all ported cabs roll off at 24dB/octave below the tuning frequency - and are rarely flat at the tuning frequency either.

    I've compared a Whappo Jr and Low-B2. The Acme had more clarity and brightness in the midrange and highs and went noticeably lower, even with a 4-string. The Whappo Jr had more punch in the midrange, more muted highs, and less bass extension but bigger boom in the midbass.

    Alex
     
  14. +1, and to Alexclaber's comments also.

    The Accugroove cabs all sound quite different from each other (which is why a lot of people chuckle at the 'flat' remarks of those cabs). To my ear, the Whappo Jr. is probably the closest, since the much bigger cab size vs. the B210 gives the illusion of the true deep bass that the Acme B210 delivers, and the upper mids and treble from the mid driver and small soft dome tweeters, while not identical, do provide a rather similar 'polite and organic' upper mid and treble response as the Acme (but as Alex states, it's 'darker' than the B210).

    I myself prefer the more mid punchy of the Whappo Jr. (really the only Accugroove that sounds relative even to me) vs. that huge low end comming out of the little B210... but that is pure personal taste there... not a better or worse.


    The smaller AC boxes (Tri112 and Tri210) are very, very different from the B210 to my ears, and they sound totally different from each other.
     
  15. chucko58

    chucko58

    Jan 17, 2002
    Silicon Valley, CA, USA
    I paid for all my gear myself. Well, me and MasterCard.
    I don't think so. My ears tell me the Acmes have a boost in the low-mid bass, and the midrange sounds strained to me. Don't get me wrong, they're fine cabs, but they aren't as flat as some people want to believe.

    Acmes use a 5" midrange driver compared to AccuGroove's 6". The midrange drivers on my Acmes are sealed back. AccuGroove uses a ported midrange enclosure. I think this accounts for the clearer midrange of the 'Grooves.
     
  16. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    Personally, I don't trust your ears. The Acmes sound far closer to any studio monitor than any other bass cab I've heard, including the Whappo Jr (apparently the most balanced sounding of the AccuGroove cabs). It was fascinating to compare the response of an open E and 12th fret E between the two cabs - through the Acme you could both hear and feel the depth of the 41Hz fundamental from the open E whilst with the AccuGroove you didn't notice much extra going on when you dropped down there, partly due to the lesser response at 41Hz but also due to the typical peak around 80Hz that you get from such an alignment (higher sensitivity woofers in a less than ideal enclosure size) making the second harmonic overshadow the fundamental greatly.

    The midrange has that open clear character I expect from a studio monitor, nothing like the punchy coloured midrange from the AccuGrooves, but not strained until you're playing so loud that the midrange protection circuitry starts to soft limit the signal.

    Two things - the midrange drivers on the Acmes are not sealed back, they are in separate sub-enclosures, which like 99% of midrange sub-enclosures are not ported. I don't hear a clearer midrange from the AccuGroove I've heard - I hear more midrange, which is a very different thing. I hear more midrange from most bass cabs, that's their inherent voicing. I wonder if you just expect that added midrange in your bass sound and without it you perceive a lack of clarity.

    The big hole in the AccuGroove "audiophile on steroids" claim is that all their cabs sound so different - of course if you're going to combine drivers of widely varying response and sensitivity and then run all of them full range bar a 1st order highpass on mid and tweeter then that's inevitable.

    Alex
     
  17. chucko58

    chucko58

    Jan 17, 2002
    Silicon Valley, CA, USA
    I paid for all my gear myself. Well, me and MasterCard.
    Alex, maybe the midranges in your Acmes aren't sealed back drivers, but mine are. Have you taken yours out and looked? I have. It could be that Acme changed the design at some point. Or not.

    I'm not going to argue about your hearing vs. mine, or which cabs are flatter. But I know and trust my own ears for dialing in my tone. And I've used my Acmes as vocal monitors in rehearsals... and I didn't like the sound. They don't sound like "studio monitors" to me. They're decent sounding bass cabs. Which is more than I can say for a lot of popular bass cabs IMHO.

    I think flat response is a myth in any case. We're always dealing with room resonances, stage floor coupling, bass boosts due to corner loading, etc., and even a speaker with a truly flat response in an anechoic chamber won't sound flat in a real room. Mark Wright has told me the AccuGrooves have been designed to "produce" tone rather than "reproduce" it. (Forgive me if I'm misquoting you, Mark.) We are talking about cabs as part of the musical instrument system which we call electric bass.

    I own both Acme and AccuGroove cabs. I've had plenty of time to compare them side by side and I prefer the sound of the AccuGrooves, especially in the midrange. But I still use the Acmes frequently because they're lighter and easier to haul around, and the sonic differences aren't big enough to outweigh (pun intended) the portability issues. And frankly the thought of leaving $2500 worth of speaker cabs at a shared rehearsal studio scares me!

    I prefer the Acmes to the Whappo Jr. because they go deeper, but I can see that the Whappo Jr. might sound better to a 4 string player. I prefer the El Whappo to the Acmes because it just plain sounds better across the range to me. I have run these 'Grooves literally side by side with the Acmes from the same amp and that's how I hear it. I haven't heard all of them in this setup but I've heard enough to know I prefer the AccuGroove midrange.

    Argue specs and response curves all you want, but you can't argue with individual taste.
     
  18. gregbackstrom

    gregbackstrom Supporting Member

    Feb 3, 2005
    Tacoma, Washington
    +1 on this point! AND also on how certain cabinets interface with the rest of your gear!

    I haven't used Accugroove cabs, but I have a couple of Acme Low B2's and a bunch of Epifani UL cabinets, too. I like them both, but for different reasons (and purposes). The Epi's are really quick and have a complex and very pleasant sound that mates well with all of my basses. The Acmes, on the other hand, are really deep and hifi-sounding. They're a superb match for my midrange-prominent Mike Lull and Fender basses, but I much prefer the Epi's with my F Bass and Ken Smith basses. I also didn't like the Acme's with my Modulus and Zon basses (but they're just a memory).

    Regarding the virtues of the Acmes, I can say two things for sure! 1) The best bass sound I've ever gotten in 40 years of playing was last summer at a huge Amgen company picnic with my Acmes powered by a Crest CA9 and Demeter VTBP-201s. I think I was playing my Nordy with big splits and Audere preamp that day. 2) Acmes are the only bass speaker cabinet I've ever been able to use as a monitor for audio reproduction (commercial CD's band demos, etc). Every other bass cabinet sounds very midrangy and uneven by comparison. I think it's true that most cabinets are designed to be music producers, while the Acmes are designed to be music reproducers!
     
  19. Bassist30

    Bassist30 Supporting Member

    Mar 19, 2004
    NEW YORK
    I don't think I trust your ears either. I have been in touch with your feelings toward Accugroove since the accu-switch controversy. So here too, I really question if you are going to be fair in any of your.... reviews I guess if you want to call it that. First of all you think all that mid range is coming from the 6" mid range speaker? Don't make this another one of your smears against Accugrooves. lets just answer the question that was originally asked. Can you do that Alex ? "Just curious: Which of the Accugroove cabs would sound most like the Acme Low B2, or have similar characteristics?" Personally the Tri210L. But I will be honest I have not owned a B2. So I won't act as if I were an expert on the subject. But what I heard I liked.
     
  20. synaesthesia

    synaesthesia

    Apr 13, 2004
    UK
    Here we go again. I wish owners would stop defending their purchase or ownership as a reflection of their personal intelligence.

    3 way designs give the illusion of a studio monitor, yes you can play back audio and 99% of the time it will sound better than a 2 way cab e.g. a Goliath - there is certainly better audio reproduction across the spectrum; but there is a reason you do not see studios using them - they are not studio monitors and you also do not see them used for PA very much because they are not PA speakers. They would certainly do a better job than a 2 Way Bass cab (again e.g. Goliath) for sure. But using a wordy forum to bash each others choice of 3 way bass cab into submission is a complete waste of time.
     

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