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Accugroove: Audio Prophet of God, or Average Audio Fraud

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by pablomigraine, Feb 15, 2006.

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  1. pablomigraine

    pablomigraine Commercial User

    Feb 9, 2005
    New York
    VP & Managing Director - Willcox Basses
    Okay, so these things get more hype than Brad and Angelina. Big Turnoff for a guy like me, but alot of people seem to love these cabinets. So, Ignoring the fact that most of us have come to accept the Accuswitch as a complete and utter fraud and a marketing technique roughly equal to Nike stating explcitly in writing that thier shoes will in fact allow you to leap to heights of 30 feet or more, my question is this:

    The Price indicates that these cabinets are made from space age carbon fiber and contain Drivers specially designed by Nasa and impregnated with the Blood of Jesus. I'm a big cost versus value guy, and I do know that these things are very well made, but do they really perfom THAT WELL? What will an El Whappo or a pair of Tri 210's do that a Schroeder 310212 wont do? Even if the drivers in the El Whappo cost $200 each, with the wood, crossover, carpet amd hardware we're still looking at a 300% markup

    Basically, what gives? Are they REALLY THAT GOOD? (please avoid "Switch" related posts if possible. It's all been covered.)

    (PS - whoever originally wrote the prophet of god thing, it was just too funny not to steal it. sorry.)
  2. J.Wolf

    J.Wolf Gear Reviewer - Bass Musician Magazine

    Apr 29, 2003
    Asheville, NC
    I like mine.
  3. pablomigraine

    pablomigraine Commercial User

    Feb 9, 2005
    New York
    VP & Managing Director - Willcox Basses
    Obviously or you wouldn't have shelled out the dough, but WHY. What is it doing for you that no other cab has done for you before? Have anything specific as far as pros or cons?
  4. MikeBass

    MikeBass Supporting Member

    Nov 4, 2003
    Royal, Oak, MI.

    How much is good (subjective) tone worht to you?? Thats your cost vs. value right there.

    Personally, I don't like them at all. There wasn't one good thing I could come up with about them.

    But as you stated-some here love them, they would have me drawn and quarted for saying that. They are boarder line fanitical about them. Cool I say!!!

    Another cost vs. value on them. From what we could tell whe we pulled a number of them apart, they use(d) standard off the shelf Eminance drivers. Not OEM speakers, but the same ones as say Avatar, Schroeder or Dr. Bass for example.
    Now, nothing wrong with that, but you would expect for the price to have OEM speakers in there.

    As for the box, it's pretty close to what Bass Box 6 would come up with if you drop in the parameters of the speakers and such (TS etc...). Again for the price one would expect something a bit different.

    BUT!!!!! (And remember I think that the cabs......well, I don't like them) What price would you put on R&D? Manufacturing costs are factored in there as well. Advertising. Legal (sorry, couldn't resist!:D ). Scrap. Shipping.

    Just ask about the Sadowsky price and watch what you'll get youself into!!

    I'm not defending them. Well maybe I am a bit, but if I could build a cab with off the shelf componants, inexpensive software, a bit of hype and sell them for permimum prices. You would see MikeBass cabs in your local bass store!:D

    IMO, Schroeder cabs out performed the AccuGroove cabs in most cases. Volume, low end, tone (subjective) and the big one-price.
  5. J.Wolf

    J.Wolf Gear Reviewer - Bass Musician Magazine

    Apr 29, 2003
    Asheville, NC
    Good question- they are spendy.

    Each of the cabs have their own strength, so:

    The El Whappo has the thickest, meatiest, round booty-est tone of any cab of that proportion I've heard. It feels to me like playing through a stack, only it's one box. It has an extremely wide frequency range, and has a very 3d hugeness to it that was instant bliss for me.

    The 210 has excellent articulation and cut (to me, with my setup and style FWIW), and still has a big deep girth to it. IMO the silk dome tweeters don't emphasize the highs in the same way that horns do, so perhaps the natural resonance of the 10's adds a bit of sparkle there. I dunno, for whatever reason, the 210 has some pretty nice spank to it.

    The Subs have more depth and tightness than any other bass cab subs I've encountered. Both the grande and the BD sub are truly amazing.

    Maybe its just the right sound for my ears. i agree they are expensive, so I'm not surprised to see people be skeptical and scrutinizing. I guess for me, Once I found the cabs that did exactly what I wanted them to do, after having owned and played through a bunch of other stuff that was really good at this or that, it just became worth it. I don't really have to think about having my tone or my volume covered at all. I find I can dial in a wierd room much easier with my EW than I could with any other cab or cab combination I had before. So for me, they just made my life easier.

    To each his own though.... of course:)
  6. elros


    Apr 24, 2004
    Proprietor, Helland Musikk Teknologi
    I paid for my Tri112L because it sounds fantastic. By that I mean that this loudspeaker doesn't hide anything, it puts forth all the subtle details that originate from my fingers touching the strings on my bass guitar. That is what good sound is, to me. Yours might be different. But if you like to hear your sound as clear as it is in studio monitors, or reference headphones, only louder; IME AccuGroove is the way to go. Is it worth it? To me, yes, obviously. To you? Only you can answer that.
  7. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Yes and no. There's nothing particularly special about their engineering, they employ design concepts well known and used in the hi-fi and PA realm for decades. But they are a lot better than typical bass cabs, which haven't changed in their basic design in thirty years. It's not that AGs are so good so much that the great majority of cabs are so bad. Are they worth the money? Not intrinsically, but until and unless someone else comes along with a comparable product at a lower price point they'll continue to get whatever the traffic will bear.
  8. KJung

    KJung Supporting Member

    I'm with Mikebass on the Accugrooves... not my thing.

    Per the comment above on 'flat' response... I don't hear those cabs that way at all... they all have very different voices across the line. I recently played a Tri112 and was not impressed. I didn't really hear the 'studio monitor' sound at all. The cab seemed very unbalanced to me... like I could hear the mid driver versus the woofer with some space in between. It didn't sound bad, just not as good as the EA's, Berg's and Schroeder's that we were comparing it to.... of course IMO.

    However.... of all the Accugrooves I've tried, the Whappo Jr. is by far the most even of the bunch... it's a very nice cab. I really disliked the 210... primarily due to the fact that it was almost as big as a 410... that particular cab doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
  9. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    Fremont, Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    I totally agree.
  10. chucko58


    Jan 17, 2002
    Silicon Valley, CA, USA
    I paid for all my gear myself. Well, me and MasterCard.
    The prices posted on the AccuGroove site are not what you'll actually pay for them. It's the industry standard inflated "list price". Ask around for some quotes and you'll get a better idea of what they really sell for. Still spendy, but not as outrageous as the "list" prices.

    AccuGroove is a low-volume manufacturer. They don't get the economies of scale that Peavey, Fender, and Ampeg do. They use custom drivers for the most part instead of high-volume standard parts. So you're paying a premium for that.

    If you don't like the prices or the sound of their cabs, don't buy them. I like mine, a one-of-a-kind 2x10 prototype. I think in the current market it's worth what I paid for it.

    I happen to agree with Bill Fitzmaurice - there's nothing miraculous or revolutionary about the AccuGrooves, just good design and construction practices, and a good job of voicing for bass guitar. But they stand out in a market full of mediocre cabs.
  11. chucko58


    Jan 17, 2002
    Silicon Valley, CA, USA
    I paid for all my gear myself. Well, me and MasterCard.
    Why I like my AccuGroove cab: The mids and the highs. I have never heard a horn tweeter I liked. For reference, I also have a pair of Acme Low B-2s, which also have a mid driver and a dome tweeter each.

    The AccuGroove cab doesn't go as deep as the Acmes, but it sounds much smoother in the midrange. The Acmes sound a little exaggerated in the low bass, and the mids sound strained.

    Most cabs on the market have horn tweeters (which always sound harsh to me) and no mid driver. I could never go back to a cab without a mid again.
  12. FunkyLemz

    FunkyLemz Supporting Member

    Oct 17, 2005
    Los Angeles, CA
  13. KJung

    KJung Supporting Member

  14. kjones


    Dec 4, 2004
    Although I've discussed this before on this board, let me explain where I'm coming from.

    From the mid-70s to the 90s, I used the old two cabinet SVT. What I loved about that was the way the bottom end made your butt pucker and the sheer force of the sound struck you in your chest. Of course, it was pretty muddy, but what did I care, that's what basses sounded like, right?

    Throughout the 90s I became exposed to a much more articulate sound. Although Jaco's tone through his AMP wasn't what I was looking for, I loved the way each individual note would stand out with none of the glop cluttering it up. Somehow I wanted a sound that was articulate, but still had the balls down deep that everyone in the audience could feel.

    Well, that's what the Whappo, Jr. combined with my DB 750 gives me. The low forceful bassy tones of the SVT with none of the mud. Each note rings clear, but the audience can feel everything I do, even at moderate volumes. I've never had a rig that could do this, and I don't care if the components are made out of chewing gum and bat guano.

    I'm sure other components out there can do the same thing (Bergies, Schroeders, etc.) But I haven't heard anything in the same league yet.
  15. seamonkey


    Aug 6, 2004
    There's absolutely no measurements available on these cabinets verses other cabinets.

    Now for PA (SR) cabinets - it's a different story. Skip Accugroove and other cabs and go PA cabs.
    With modeling, preamps, ... you want accurate sound.
  16. Just received my second Whappo Jr. from the Groove Shoppe yesterday, I like them. for many reasons.
  17. metron

    metron Supporting Member

    Sep 12, 2003
    Not really related to the original question but I see people post all over the place about "flat" sounding speakers. Does anyone really know what a "flat" speaker sounds like? I thought all speaker designs have some dips and peaks in their frequency response. How is "flat" beneficial?
  18. chucko58


    Jan 17, 2002
    Silicon Valley, CA, USA
    I paid for all my gear myself. Well, me and MasterCard.
    "Flat" is an ideal which is rarely achieved in any speaker, including the best hi-fi gear. Some expensive speakers (studio monitors, home theatre exotica, etc.) can get close.

    If a "flat" response could be achieved, the advantage to a musician is that you could dial in any tone shaping you wanted, without having to work around the speaker's inherent response.
  19. Emprov


    Mar 19, 2003
    AG uses soft dome tweeters. Did you happen to notice what exactly they were?
  20. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    Fremont, Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Yes. The Bergantino IP series is as close as I have heard (or expect to hear). They are internally powered, and there is a DSP front end which (among other things) uses powerful EQ to shape the frequency response to "flat." Obviously, this method requires detailed measurements of the cab to begin with, as well as skilled use of the EQ tools on hand. The result is, IMHO, quite stunning, and not at all "sterile" or "uninteresting."


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