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AccuGroove: Now available in Canada you say?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by oddio, Jan 31, 2005.

  1. It would be prudent to preface my comments with a little background, and perhaps by telling you that I have no affiliation with either the good folks at AccuGroove or their Canadian distributor, GH Services. I am merely sharing my recent personal experience.

    As to the background, I've been using Acme speakers and specifically the Low B2-II cabinets for a while and they've really delivered the goods. I will continue to use them for smaller venues, but as of this weekend they are no longer part of my default stage rig. Four B2 cabinets with three kilowatts of power did sound truly astounding (especially with 5-stringed instruments) but it really seemed overkill to haul all this around. Two B2 cabinets just weren't cutting it. The main "issues" I was having didn't relate to achieving "my sound" but had a lot more to do with cabinet efficiency and projection. This is what got me thinking about AccuGroove cabinets in the first place.

    I had no success finding a major chain up here that was willing to source AccuGroove for me, but I don't give up easily and it wasn't long before I noticed a listing for a Canadian distributor on the AccuGroove website. I called them right away. Mark Wright was wonderful to deal with, and after some discussion I was able to decide on the El Whappo. My order was in the queue and my new cabinet would soon be on the way! I tried to provide as much upfront lead-time as was possible given that a very important date was looming on the calendar.

    Mark (AccuGroove) and Greg Holmes (GH Services), who was also great to deal with, moved heaven and earth to get the El Whappo built, through Customs and up here on time. Although there were a few tense moments on Friday night, my cabinet arrived this past Saturday morning with just enough time for an appropriate break-in period before our sound check. Greg really went the extra mile to pull off a miracle, because on Friday the cabinets were stuck in Toronto with apparently no possibility of delivery until Monday. In the end everything came off without a hitch and both of these good folks are due a very big THANK YOU.

    My initial concern with choosing an El Whappo was the size and weight. For the record it is neither huge in size nor is it difficult for one person to manage. I was able to load the new lighter model in and out without difficulty, and compared to most here I am an "old guy".

    Although the sound is quite similar, to my ears the El Whappo does everything that the Acmes do well plus a bit more. Notably I found the overall sound to be more transparent with little or no coloration, even on the lowest notes. Some have written that "you hear the true sound of your instrument" and I agree with this statement wholeheartedly. In fact the rest of the band commented that they could hear actual note fundamentals for the first time. It was also a surprise to run the levels on my DB750 so low... roughly 1/4 of what the Acmes needed to produce the same level onstage, but with amazing projection.

    So as to the moral of the story, I'm carting around a whole lot less and the band and the audience are now hearing exactly what I hear on stage. Who could ask for more? Thumbs up on the following:

    El Whappo
    AccuGroove and Mark Wright
    GH Services and Greg Holmes

    You all rock! :bassist: And the end result? It looks like the band schedule will be VERY busy for the forseeable future. Sincere thanks to all concerned.
  2. That's awesome that it all worked out for you! It's great to see companies go the extra mile for their customers.

    I'll have an AccuGroove someday. :hyper:
  3. Good post. Mark is a great guy and a very good person to do business with. His cabs really rock as well.

    I haven't had such a good sound as when I first got my Accugroove. It is like hearing everything again for the first time.

    Welcome to the Groove Club :bassist:

  4. dood


    Dec 9, 2004
    Ok so, this is makin' me even more exciteable. I am *holds up finger and thumb together* This close to ordering my first Accugroove...

    Will it be tomorrow.. or thursday!!! and... I haven't even heard one yet!! heh heh!!
  5. Thank you for the welcome and comments Matthew (and others too). It certainly is like hearing everything for the first time. I'm still coming to grips with the fact that I replaced all that gear with one cabinet and that it is totally faithful to my choice of instrument, or amp for that matter. Just WOW. Good luck to you, dood! You won't be disappointed!
  6. Have you powered it with the DB680/DB728 rig yet?
  7. I haven't even dared to try that combination yet! I promise that a full report will follow in short order.
  8. Haha, cool, can't wait to read it.
  9. Apologies to anyone who was actually waiting for a review... fooled you! No, no, just kidding. :ninja:

    Actually I've spent a bit of time using the El Whappo with the DB680+DB728, the DB750 (gig tested :D and thoroughly approved!) and the Trace V8. It's been enough to convince me that I need to spend a bit more time than originally planned to do this thing up properly. I'm hearing subtleties that were not apparent until the El Whappo, and I'm torn between all three. Result will follow, but probably not for a few more days yet. Please stand by.
  10. spiritbass

    spiritbass Supporting Member

    Jun 9, 2004
    Ashland, MO
    To finally hear ALL the subtleties previously buried in your signal... I'll say it again; Accugrooves will add a new dimension to your sound and enjoyment of playing. Mucho kudos to Mark for fantastic products & support!
  11. While you're waiting for the review, I'll add this little snippet for your amusement. The place we played had a large, low and hollow wooden stage. During the sound check I was getting some acoustic coupling with the stage itself. Needless to say, I popped the casters in for the show and didn't have a problem.

    But for our sound check the El Whappo was firmly coupled with the stage, and during the run-through I was getting some seriously alarmed looks from the other band members. It seems that the bass notes were crawling up their legs... far enough in fact to massage their nasty bits if you get my meaning. Fortunately no one reached nirvana during that short few minutes. If not for the casters we'd have had some serious cheek-flapping going on that night, and I'm not talking about facial contortions! :p
  12. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    Let me get this straight - one El Whappo is producing as much low end and loudness as four Low-B2s, whilst using less power? That's pretty amazing!!!

    You know how the 10"s in the Acmes really move a lot once you're cranking the bass - how is it possible for a single 15" driver to displace as much air as eight 10" drivers? How far does it move?!!

  13. Balor


    Sep 24, 2000
    Montréal, Québec
    Technically speaking, the EL Whappo is more sensitive then 2 Low B4...! Every time you double either the driver surface or the power you add 3dB to the max output. The low B2 is 93dB 1w/1m, 2 of those would be as loud as a Low B4 which is 96dB, by doubling that and you get 99dB. To be as loud as an El Whappo (102dB 1w/1m according to the Accugroove site), you need at least 2 times more power.

    Not sure if it's what you wanted to know but it explains part of the fact.
  14. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    I did realise that, and it explains why the El Whappo needs so much less power for a given volume level. I'm not so much interested in the efficiency as I am in the maximum output volume, which with a very dynamic signal like bass is determined by the peak power handling combined with the sensivity.

    And if I understand this stuff correctly, the peak power handling multiplied by the sensitivity is directly proportional to the speaker area multiplied by maximum excursion. (I'm just talking about low frequency signals here as IME it's the amount of bass a cab can produce that limits the size of venues it can handle).

    So regardless of the efficiency and power handling of the cabinet (power handling being normally thermal power handling, not excursion related), the maximum LF output for a speaker is defined by the amount of air it can displace, i.e. area x stroke (ignoring horn loading and port assistance).

  15. Alex,

    I truly wish that I could call on my knowledge of physics to supply the definitive answer for you. Obviously a single 15" plus a single 12" hasn't got near the surface area of eight 10"s... so I'm certain that the difference in efficiency is a major factor here.

    When powering all four Acmes I would typically use a DB680 driving a QSC PLX3002. My cabs are 4ohms, so I would run 1500 watts per side (@ 2ohms) to power all four. With the El Whappo set to 4ohms I am able to use my DB750 at levels far below what was required to drive two Acmes (2ohm load) and get much more. While the sound is very similar, the AccuGroove cuts through a little better than the Acme with no loss of low end. As mentioned above the rest of the band could hear the fundamentals, apparently for the first time.

    One other observation I can offer relates to projection. Using an Xwire in different venues I found that the sound of the Acmes would drop off significantly as you moved beyond 15 feet. The AccuGroove projects better. You don't find a point where the sound drops away quickly as you move farther out (as with the Acmes).

    The speakers have a decent amount of excursion. I don't think I've come near testing the limits and I would probably never need to get that loud. I did find that I could slap confidently without worrying about taking out one or several speakers.
  16. Should I bring a jock strap to the next Feat First show?

    A salesman down at Steve's Music once made a comment about "those scrotal lows".
  17. Hehe.... a few folks here have spoken about "the brown note" so it's in the same league. Just be sure to bring your Dingwall when you visit!
  18. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    I don't think efficiency is the real issue - unless you were running out of power before the Acmes started complaining. IME 750W per Low-B2 is enough to take them to the limits assuming you have a fair quantity of lows in your tone.

    Also, the 12" in the El Whappo isn't providing any of the real lows if it is a true 4-way cabinet. Which leaves everything down to the 15". One 15" has about 2.5 times the area of one 10" so it then comes down to excursion to make up the rest of the air displacement. The Acme 10"s have a fair amount of excursion but nothing like a serious subwoofer (though those tend to be even lower efficiency). So if the 15" in the El Whappo has about 3 times the excursion (Xmax) of the 10"s in the Acmes then it will be able to produce as much bass. If it has more, which your comments suggest it may, then it can produce even more bass.

    The big question is then, how can you make a long throw 15" subwoofer have a sensivity of 102dB@1W1m? I'm suspecting it comes down to an absolutely massive (or if it's neo, which I guess the new extra light Whappo is, enormously high power) magnet structure, and a speaker designed to work in a pretty large enclosure (compared to most bass cabs which are undersized for the speaker content), again assuming that most of the internal volume of the Whappo is dedicated to the 15".

  19. These are all good questions for Mark, Alex. I'm not certain what crossover points, drivers and tunings were chosen etc., and no point in speculating. I'm certain he can debate the physics with you to your satisfaction. Before you do, please re-read my original post. Here's what I said...

    I'm not sure what wasn't clear about this to you.

    I had no problems supplying lots of clean power, but did manage (with a bit of light slapping) to crease cones in all four of my Acmes over time. I am not an exclusively fingerstyle player. The AccuGroove allows me to do a little slapping without worry. My beech Wal MkIII is very punchy, and has no lack of low end I can assure you. I typically set my DB680 (or DB750) flat with no boosts and use the controls on the bass. Now I am hauling one cabinet and one head. It's a lot more convenient and seems to be doing a better job for me. YMMV. That's what it's all about.
  20. MODNY

    MODNY Guest

    Nov 9, 2004
    i remember greg telling me that one of his customers had an el whappo coming to them...

    thats awesome

    i got my tri 210l from him a couple weeks backk

    i'm loving it too

    have fun with her