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Acme 410 + Boogie 115?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Pre EB, Jul 28, 2002.


  1. Pre EB

    Pre EB

    Mar 15, 2002
    Denton, Tx
    I've been thinking about running my RR Boogie 15 with my Acme to see if it makes a difference in volume but I'm not sure how the wattage would be distributed to each cab. I would be bridging my amp to 1100W at 4ohms full range. Would the Acme get enough juice, and if so, would it over power the 400W EVM 15? How much of the power is used by the 410 and how much would be given to the 15 running it this way? Anybody ever done this? I'm thinking the Acme's low end will kick the Boogie's lows but it might make it louder. FWITW it looks really cool;)
     
  2. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    If the cabinets are both rated at 8 ohms, they'll essentially split the power 50%/50%.

    A loudspeaker's rated impedance is really its nominal impedance becaue impedance varies widely with frequency. Since the Boogie doesn't go as deep as the Acme (meaning that it's impedance at lower frequencies (like less than 60 Hz) is higher than the Acme) the Acme will get more than 50% of the power at the low, low end.

    I used to combine a B2 with a EV TL606 cabinet (basically the same thing as the Boogie). I did use separate channels of my PLX2402 power amp though. The EVM 15 really filled in the low mids and seemed to enhance the low end much better than it's measured frequency response would suggest that it could. It was also a lot more efficient than the Acme so it took less power to be louder.

    If you're placing both cabinets in parallel, it's very likely that the Boogie will be louder than the Acme. It also has a lower power rating so you might not be able to hit the Acme with the huge amounts of power that it needs and may be dissappointed with the results.

    Time for you to experiement and see what you think....because that's what really matters.
     
  3. Pre EB

    Pre EB

    Mar 15, 2002
    Denton, Tx
    Thanks for the reply! I just wanted to make sure that I didn't blow something up doing this. I love the Boogie and run it with a 210 Deisel for a different sort of rig, but I got to thinkin' how it might sound paired with my Acme. I'll try it and see what happens.
    Joe
     
  4. Metal Mitch

    Metal Mitch

    Jul 14, 2003
    NJ
    So... how'd it sound?

    I've been thinking about trying something like that using a 4 ohm Acme B-2W (instead of an 18), parallel on the same channel with an 8 ohm full-range cab. In theory, I'm guessing the Acme would get 2/3 the power and the top cab would get 1/3, compensating somewhat for the lower efficiency of the Acme. Anybody know how this would work? Or would I better off running the Acme on it's own channel and simply adjusting the volume controls?
     
  5. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    Mitch...how loud do you play? Combining your ID and you band's names, I'm guessing that it's pretty loud :D :bassist:

    Unless you run through the PA, (I suspect that) you'll be disappointed using one B2W for low end. Their efficiency is so low that you can't put enough power into the cabinet to get metal band loud before you run up against the woofer's thermal limit. The cones will be banging against the grille and it will sound awful (in a bad way). I've been there (and that was with an alternative/classic rock band):D :bawl:

    My guess is that an 18 would be better suited to what I preceive that you're doing.

    However, if you really want to try it, I strongly recommend that you give the Acme it's own power amp channel, and at least 700 - 800 watts (mine got about 725 watts). Extreme low end filtering is a good thing too (my PLX has a built in filter (user selectable 30 or 50 Hz)to protect the cones against over excursion.

    Good luck!!!
     
  6. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    what Billy said,

    i'll just add that the 4x10 is MONSTROUSLY loud. i finally got mine yesterday, and i didnt even crank it all that much, cause Andy said the speakers needed time to break in. but at about 1/2 the power driving only 350 watts, the room was already shakin'! :bassist:

    if you're doin' a metal gig, the 4x10 is definitely the way to go. NOT the 2x10. its the guys with the metal bands using the little wee 2x10 blowing out the cones who are complaining about the Acmes' inefficiency. :rolleyes: but, i'm sure if you couple the Acme 4x10 with anything else, you'd have quite the low end of DOOM! :eek:
     
  7. Metal Mitch

    Metal Mitch

    Jul 14, 2003
    NJ
    Thanks guys. Yep, it would have to be loud and I was interested in the fast response of the 10's for fast riffs and speed-picking as opposed to a soggy 18. No way I would use lowend filtering on a subwoofer though, we tune to Bflat so even a 30Hz filter would be cutting off whatever fundamental I can get... ;) but I might bi-amp it to increase the efficiency. Joker, the notoriously inefficient Acme got loud with only 350 watts? Maybe you have weak walls? :p hehe. Sounds like the 4x10 bi-amped with it's own power amp is the way to go... thanks again.
     
  8. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    Mitch, our instrument doesn't really put out too much fundamental. The ear takes the harmonic series and creates the low note...

    Have you looked into an SWR Big Ben. Benny boy is a pretty un-tubby 18.
     
  9. Eric Cioe

    Eric Cioe

    Jun 4, 2001
    Missoula, MT
    Let me also recomend, as an 18, a Yamaha SW118 PA sub.

    It's about $400, and sounds very deep (even if the specs say otherwise). Run it with a crossover, even if it only cuts the high end of it (above, say 200 HZ).
     
  10. Mitch-

    Andy over at Acme recomends AGAINST bi-amping his cabinets as they're full-range set-ups. Even the with the W series he suggests adding it to another cab in full range. If I was in your shoes I would consider around a 2kw amp and two Low B-4's, running one off each channel. Regardless of what you go with though you might want to think of giving the Acme it's own channel (NOT the same as bi-amping) and run it full range so you have better volume control. If you don't want the mids or the highs you can always turn off the attenuators in the back. Let us know what you wind up doing.:bassist:

    Joker-

    I expect a FULL REPORT on that Low B-4/DPC set-up!!!:D
     
  11. dnburgess

    dnburgess

    Jul 20, 2003
    Sydney, Australia
    Proprietor: Bass People, Green Square Music
    I would second the advice in the previous post. For heavy metal 2 B4s, each with its own power amp channel is going to sound great.

    For a discussion on the relationship between efficiency, power rating and sound pressure level, check out http://www.acmebass.com.au/acme/tech4.htm

    The B4 has an efficiency rating of 96dB and a max. continuous power rating of 700W - which means its max. CONTINUOUS output level is 124dB - that's very loud.

    NB The Occupational Health and Safety Administration advise the maximum allowable exposure per day to sound levels of 115dB is 15 minutes or less. (http://www.hei.org/hearhealth/hearloss/osha.htm)
     
  12. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    I agree. I thought the midrange driver on the Acme's was it's best feature.
     
  13. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    little OT:

    hey guy,

    i did play the DPC rather low thru the B4, but its been making some annoying humming in the background. very different from my Stewart which is dead quiet.

    kinda a bummer, but i was actually thinking about getting a Stewart World 2.1. i'd put that in a separate rack box, and put the Aguilar into another separate one to make for a very easy transport.

    but other than that, i couldnt be happier with the bass cab! i've ALWAYS loved that bass "direct to tape" sound, and the Acme really gives it up. cant wait for it to open up, and really let that Low B slam!
     
  14. I get the same thing! I posted here and other places asking about it to no avail. I was told it was my pre-amp by the Peavey tech. Makes me wonder now that yours is doing it too. I never noticed it running my previous set-up (2x10's & 118, bi-amped). I don't currently have any other cabs to run it with. Try running a few different cabs different ways (stereo, bridged, etc...). Maybe it's an issue the DPC has when bridged?
     
  15. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    woah, scary...

    thing is i first noticed it with my Epifani 3x10UL!!!

    i'm going to my friend's studio, and am gonna see if i can do anything more like use a power strip, power conditioner, different power cable, different cabs, fiddle with the built in compressor switch, etc. i'm hoping its prolly juse a "dirty" power issue.

    if worse comes to worse, i guess i could have my friend pop the hood and see what he can find.

    i guess, the Peev is off my list for "reliable" or "quiet". :meh:
     
  16. Metal Mitch

    Metal Mitch

    Jul 14, 2003
    NJ
    Um... ok. Way off topic here :p

    EB's thread was about combining Acme cabs with "standard name-brand aggressive mid-humped" cabs, wasn't it? (Heretofore referred to as SNBAMH!)

    That's what I was asking about anyway. All I'm looking for is a tight and fast subwoofer to fill in some missing dB's in the F3 rolloff zone that all cabs seem to suffer from. Billy, fundamental vs 1st harmonic has absolutely nothing to do with it - simply put, I don't want to lose volume when I hit the low notes! Joker was the only one who actually addressed the question, and basically said "it will kick ass if you use the B4". Thanks!

    Pete, I'm going to follow your advice and use my ears. If whats-his-name at Acme wants to swing by my house with a B2 and a B4 I'll be happy to try them out. But there's no way I'll even think for a minute that a 5" mid driver is good for bass, or would replace the punch and growl of a SNBAMH cab.
    Use that 5" in your car stereo, pal! :p If that's Acme's best feature, I should probably look elsewhere immediately.

    Guy, Andy probably wouldn't recommend me rewiring his 8-ohm B4 cab for 2 ohms either, but I'm crazy enough to do it. :bassist:

    And Dan, I really can't imagine why in the world you would suggest transparent speakers would be good for metal? Transparency sounds terrible with metal, the idiots that used Trace-Elliot in the 80's proved that. Remember Death Angel? It doesn't mix with the guitars at all. The only advantage of transparent cabs is they're not muddy or boomy - but since it can't be mixed, it's worthless. Unless it's ghetto cheap and loud, heheh :D

    I think a local store actually has a used B2 in stock. I might try it out, but only to throw underneath a SNBAMH stack - crossed over at about 60Hz! :spit:
     
  17. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    no no, you misunderstood. The 5" recieves nothing in the way of bottom end. It's there purely for midrange.

    The cabinet contains passive crossovers which split the signal into 3. It sends the low frequencies to the 10's, the midrange frequencies to the 5" speaker, and the high frequencies to the horn.

    A bit off topic ...... Phil Jones would argue with you about 5" being incapable of handling bottom end. If it's designed that way from the ground up, and you use enough of them, it's possible.
     
  18. Metal Mitch

    Metal Mitch

    Jul 14, 2003
    NJ
    Hi Pete, I didn't misunderstand at all - I understand crossovers and the 3-way cabinet design. I just perceive a single 5" mid driver as a car stereo speaker when compared to a 2x10 or 4x10 bi-amped and crossed over at say 225-250 Hz.

    Sure if you use enough of them any speaker is good. Let's build a 16x5 cab and use it as a top.
     
  19. MM-

    If you're interested in alternate impedences you might want to give Andy a call. He'd be happy to accomodate pretty much any request. The guy actually answers the phone himself. He was more then nice in taking time with me to discuss my needs, etc... Maybe you should give him a call.

    On the 5" driver note; Were you guys thinking of something like this-

    http://www.philjonesbass.com/PRODUCTS/SPEAKERS/16H.htm

    ?????:bassist: