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Acme 4x10 Vs. Epifani 3x10

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by turnuptheBASS, Mar 26, 2006.


  1. turnuptheBASS

    turnuptheBASS

    Jan 30, 2005
    So. CA.
    Alrighty...I did a search ( maybe I could of done better) but I couldn't really find a whole lot threads comparing both of these cabs. I heard a Epi310 tonight and it had some serious punch and it was LOUD..I was amazed at how loud that little fella could get.
    Anyhow I play thru a Acme 410 right now and I am thinking of selling/trading etc.. and maybe getting me a that Epi 310(because its lighter, easier to carry and more effiecient)...before I do, I was wondering if I could get some advice from anyone who were actually able to compare both cabs or had both cabs at once or one at a time...doesnt matter...I need your opinions, advice etc, etc. Help me please....Much appreicated!:hyper:
     
  2. I've previously owned a 310UL (I 'upgraded' to the 410UL a while back) and also had two AcmeB210's in the past... so that's close:) I was MUCH happier with the projection and punch of the 310UL for my sound. While the Epi won't do that huge low end thing that the Acme will do when you put a TON of power into it, I always found that super low end extension to get in the way of my personal tone (which is somewhat modern and crisp). I also found the Epi UL line to have MUCH more upper mid articulation and a much, much clearer and crisper treble response (if that's important to your sound).

    When you dial in the weight and efficiency advantage (especially if you are using the Ashdown listed in your profile...which is about 500 watts shy of really pushing that Acme410 IMO!), and the fact that you've heard the 310UL and liked it, seems like a 'no brainer' to me:bassist:

    Finally, the Ashdown head's kind of mid-punchy sound really lines up well with the 310UL IMO. The 310UL, for some reason, is a little more open, round, and slighty 'scooped' sounding versus the 410UL, which has a lot more 'mid articulation' to my ear.
     
  3. turnuptheBASS

    turnuptheBASS

    Jan 30, 2005
    So. CA.
    Thanks for your opinion...as of this morning..I am SERIOUSLY considering the 310UL OR even a 410UL...just have to decided and which one:confused: :smug:

    any more opinions or suggestions? much appreciated
     
  4. el_Kabong

    el_Kabong

    Jul 11, 2005
    Only that the 410ul is very loud and very light. It's quite a surprise the first time you lift one.
     
  5. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PHL
    lol,

    keep both! that's what i did. ;)

    seriously, tho, the Epifani UL310 is my "too lazy to move about" cab, while my Acme B4 is my "kick you in the chest til you bleed cab".

    seriously, with enough power, the tight low end booty from the Acme, sometimes makes the UL310 seem almost "shallow" sounding at times. still, with the right EQ, you can get some nasty low middy punch that'll cut thru anything. i actually much prefer the acme sound and versatily i get w/ the slightly more neutral voice of the Acme, but the Epifani is great when i have a big gig in the city, dont feel like dealing with craptastic club rigs, and yet need some serious SPL movement.

    but if you heard and liked the sound of the UL310, i say go for it. it has yet to let me down, and is as of this moment my FAV all time cab.

    btw, what's the rest of your rig look like now?
     
  6. turnuptheBASS

    turnuptheBASS

    Jan 30, 2005
    So. CA.
    I would love to keep both...but $$$ says that I can only keep one....:confused:


    As of now I use a Ashdown ABM EVO II thru a ACME 410, with my trusty US Joe Osborn.:bassist:
     
  7. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PHL
    hmm...

    that ABM probably isnt pushing enough wattage to make me happy w/ the B4, but i'm sure w/ the UL310, you'll get some serious air moving. heck, w/ my 600 watt Epi UL502 head, hitting noon on the master makes for some intestine moving punch.
     
  8. turnuptheBASS

    turnuptheBASS

    Jan 30, 2005
    So. CA.

    My rig can get LOUD...but do I need more power? I was previously using a CrestV1100 Series Amp with a Demeter HBP1....i think 1100 watts bridged and my ashdown seems louder...I could be wrong.

    jokerjkny...how much power are you pushing through your acme? and do you think that a UL410 would be closer the the slam of an acme? Thanks
     
  9. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PHL
    wow,

    i'm really confused now. lol.

    but hey, whatever works, right? ;)
     
  10. turnuptheBASS

    turnuptheBASS

    Jan 30, 2005
    So. CA.

    :p :bag: :hyper: :D


    maybe it was a v900 series ...it was a long time ago...
     
  11. If your Acme410 is loud enough for you and sounds good to you, then by definition, you don't need more power:)

    Also, comparing a head that has a 'professionally matched' preamp and power amp to a component system can be problematic. Some pre's and power amps just don't seem to match up that well regarding input sensitivity, etc. I've experienced many a component system that didn't put out the sound that you would expect given the wattage, etc.

    So, if your Acme is loud enough for you, then we are totally talking about tone preference. And there aren't two cabs that are more different sounding than the UL's and the Acme's...

    - Acme's... huge, full low end, very polite mids and very, very polite treble response (due to that small mid driver and very small tweeter). That's not a negative at all if that's the sound you are going for. However, even with Joker's 'extreme EQ' sort of thing, there's just so much upper mids and treble you can push through the Acme's... it's just not their thing (of course, again, that's only a negative if it doesn't match your sound).

    - EpiUL's.... again, very efficient... there is no way that an Acme410 will keep up with an Epi410UL with 500 watts into it... no way, no how. Put 1000 or so 'lead sled' watts into the Acme and you have a different story. As above, the Epi will seem much more 'alive'... IMO due to the 10's providing all that nice upper mid articulation versus that small little mid driver in the Acme surrounded by all those deep sounding woofers. Also, the UL treble (i.e., 2K and up) will be about the same with the tweeter attenuated at about the 9:00 setting versus the Acme with the tweeter all the way up (and that's comparing the UL's to two Acme210's with double the tweeters and mid drivers of your 410 Acme)... so lot's of additional upper-end tweeking capability with the UL's.

    Per your 310UL vs. 410UL question... the 410UL puts out MUCH more volume than the 310UL (I've A/B'd)... they aren't even close. The 310UL actually sounds a little fuller and more open at low and moderate volumes, but will eventually compress at high volumes (i.e., not sound bad, but just kind of 'run out of steam'). The 410UL just keeps getting louder, and louder and louder, and will just scream with 500 watts.

    So, the difference between the Acme's and the UL sound is very, very extreme.... the UL's are so much more articulate... every subtle note nuance comes out due to all that sound above 1K in those cabs. Depending on your preference and technique:D , this can be a good thing or a bad thing. Also, similarly to the Schroeders, IMO, the low end of the UL's is tuned to be very 'usable' (i.e., punchy and not overly extended in the low end... that extended low end of the Acme's is what can really eat up the power, and IMO can also sound quite 'floppy' sometimes on stage).

    For 'wump per size and watt', the 310UL is a fabulous cab... volume and size between a 210 and 410, and weight less than most 210's. Wonderful! The 410UL is a large 410, but is only 57 pounds... again, about the same as most traditional 210's... even more amazing! However, with enough watts, the Acme410 can put lows to rival a subwoofer system. It all depends what you want!

    I believe the descriptions above are pretty accurate, but which one is positive or negative is due to pure personal taste.

    Hope that helps.
     
  12. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    I haven't heard an UL-*10 cab but the UL-112 sounds remarkably similar to an Acme Low-B2, ignoring all the extra bass weight and extension; or to put it another way, the Acme sounds like a 112UL plus a very nice subwoofer. And a 4 ohm Low-B2 is slightly more sensitive than an 8-ohm UL-112.

    I'm sure you know this by now, but Acmes only have polite mids/treble if your bass has polite mids/treble, or if you're expecting too much SPL from the cabs so the mid/high protection is kicking in.

    With all bass cabs, once you get up to LOUD volumes they all suffer from compression, due to voice coil temperature gain, port turbulence and most importantly insufficient Xmax. Consequently, most cabs start compressing the lows quite early on, so as you turn them up they get more and more midrangey (though the ear's oddities compensates for that to a degree). I'm sure the main reason Schroeders go so loud is the lack of true bottom, the huge midrange boost from the small cab volume and quasi-horn loading, and the big LF compression at stage volumes.

    Acmes aren't like this - when you go louder you still get full bottom because the speakers have such a high Xmax. Eventually once you're really cranking the mid/high drivers run out of headroom, or you start exceeding Xmax on the woofers.

    What's my point? That Acmes are very clear sounding cabs with plenty of bass, midrange and treble, if you use them within their limits.

    Alex
     
  13. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    And to answer the actual question:

    If you don't want or need the massive bottom of the Acme, don't mind the extra cost of the UL-310 or UL-410, and would also like the extra midrange punch and potential for very bright treble, as well as the ease of cartage, then one of the Epifanis would seem like a good choice.

    If you want big bottom, or aren't that bothered about the weight, or would rather save than spend, then I'd stick with the Acme. The choice is yours!

    Alex
     
  14. +1 all the way around:)
     
  15. turnuptheBASS

    turnuptheBASS

    Jan 30, 2005
    So. CA.
    Thank you for all your help on this ( THIS IS WHY THE TB ROCKS)..I am going to try and A/B sometime this weekend with my amp and I will base my decision on that. Whichever way I go, I am sure it won't be a bad decision.:bassist:



    will a 212 setup give me the lows like an ACME....but will it still be punchy?
     
  16. pogipoints

    pogipoints Custom User Title Holder

    Dec 5, 2005
    Atlanta
    Sorry for the hijack, just a quick question: What do you think about stacking an 8ohm B2 and an 8ohm UL112?

    /hijack
     
  17. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PHL
    why not?

    i'm sure they'll sound fine together. but i'd go all or nothing in either case.

    for me, i like the acme, only cause 10" speakers give me that punch that i cant seem to EQ into 12" speakers.

    then again, if you're not running enough power, the more efficient all UL112 setup might prove more your style.
     
  18. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PHL
    dont get us wrong, Epifani cabs have waaay more low end than whatever you'll find at a GC. and, you'll get plenty of low end w/ the UL112's, but IMHO, no 12" speaker has given me the punch i crave, even with drastic EQ'ing, like i hear in 10" loaded cabs.

    a better bet would be sticking w/ the UL310, since it puts out plenty of punch and volume, while staying compact, light and very efficient.
     
  19. MacGroove

    MacGroove Brother of the Groove with a 'Pocket Full of Funk'

    Oct 5, 2005
    Calif.
    I used to use a Epi 310NYC (Epi didn't make the UL's yet) but changed over to the 410UL because I wanted a cab that'll do it all no matter where I played or how loud I needed to get, tone is great in both cabs. But like Ken said, at louder volumes (as loud as our band gets :rollno: ) it does compress some.
     
  20. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    I don't think it will. But how much lows do you really need? I think it'll have plenty of punch though, I don't really subscribe to the belief in smaller speakers having a quicker punch.

    I don't think the cabs' sound would be balanced - the B2 needs practically twice as much power as the UL112 to put out the same SPL and will handle a lot more power than the UL112 without getting upset.

    However, I think a 4 ohm Low-B2 and an 8 ohm UL-112 would be an awesome rig! Their inherently similar tone keeps the rig sounding very coherent, the Acme adds a whole wodge of bottom to the Epi and the Epi adds some high SPL punch, clarity and power handling to the mix. Having run this rig at low volumes it sounded great but it's at high volumes when the Acme runs out of 1kHz+ SPL and the Epi runs out of sub 100Hz SPL that they'd really help each other out.

    Alex
     

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