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Aguilar AG500 SC + (Aguilar, Epifani, EA, etc?)

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by pedroferreira, Sep 15, 2008.


  1. pedroferreira

    pedroferreira

    Feb 10, 2003
    Portugal
    Hi

    I have a Sadowsky RV5 which is my main bass and had be using for the last years an AG500 SC with an EA Cxl-112.
    The cabinet ( @ solo) sounds very raw and a bit nasal, but in a band context it cuts like nothing else (and I like that except when slapping which is a bit bright )
    I'm a professional freelancer who does a lot of different things.
    Now I'm working with a band which is doing a lot of outdoor shows so I thought of buying a bigger cab. And I thought that a 4x10 would be perfect for that. (despite the Cxl I love big bottom, but with definition).
    I tried a friend's Aguilar GS410 (8 ohm) that I liked a lot; so I ordered a GS410 @ 4 ohm for that big gigs.
    When the cab arrived I was a bit disappointed. The sound appeared different from my friend's cab. There is an inherent low mid boost (that I think is between 180-250Hz) that I particularly don't like. And the AG500 Mid Frequencies are 400 and 800, and can't attenuate that frequency.
    I know we usually take some time to get used to new gear, but it has passed a few months and I'm regretting my choice, because of that kind of "annoying" (IMO) bump and the weight of the cabinet. I usually don't have roadies (at least when I am loading or unloading my car at home) and 98lbs is a little bit to much.

    So I decided to sell the cab and find another.

    My first choice is the UL410.
    A friend of mine has one (S1) and lent it, for me to try at a gig.

    First thing: This thing is LIGHT. Very Light.
    Second: It plays very LOUD.

    At home I loved it. Perfect bass sound. Smooth and very warm. So I suspected it wouldn't cut as much has I liked in a band context. And I was right.
    Instead of flat settings on amp, I started boosting the Hi mid on the Ag500, which helped a lot. But I couldn't hear the "mid aggressive" sound that you guys talk about. Now, if I buy one new, it will be the S2, which will be worst (more muddy IMO) from the words I been hearing from you guys that the S2 has less high mids.
    But I loved the weight and portability.
    Maybe the 310 wouldn't be so fat and more present? What do you guys think?

    I also have another option. Buying an EA NL-210 to pair with the Cxl. I think (from what I read on talkbass and listened in basstasters) that I'll love the NL210 compared with the Cxl. In this case I can use any of them alone, and combined for the big shows (I think they will compliment each other). But I've been reading the impedance problems of EA cab line, that an 8 ohm cab is near 4 ohm, and people using 2 of them, have problems with amps that are 4 ohm minimum.

    What do you think?

    Sorry for the long post, and thanks in advance.

    Pedro
     
  2. pedroferreira

    pedroferreira

    Feb 10, 2003
    Portugal
    From another thread:


    This is how I wanted to describe the sound of the UL410 (but Ken for shure can do it better than me :D )

    I tried the UL410 with the 502 and the AG500. With the results that Ken described.

    So maybe the Markbass is the one that is mid heavy, and causing that impression on some of you guys (S2 being more flat than S1)?


    Pedro
     
  3. Hello Pedro. Yes, the 410UL (either I or II) is a wide, smooth, big sounding cab, and is NOT a good matchup with the similar wide and smooth sounding AG500 IMO and IME (while the AG500 doesn't sound exactly like the Ep502, they are in the same tone universe to me... more on the big, deep, wide and smooth side of things versus punchy). The few people who make a big deal about the difference between the sound of the 410UL versions continue to confuse me (TBer Vision and I just did yet another direct A/B with the I and II). The cabs are MUCH more similar in tone than different, and I use my I and II literally interchangeably. However, the slight difference between them is in the wrong direction for your needs (i.e., I believe you would like the II even less).

    IMO, given the rather big low end of the AG500, and the somewhat limited mid EQ capability (it's funny, the center points on the mid EQ of the SC500 are virtually identical to my MB LMII, but seem to be much less impactful), the Bergantino AE410 might be just the ticket for you. It is quite mid present, but my guess is, it would tighten up the AG500 quite a bit, and the AE410 would benefit from the nice, fat low end of the AG500, since that cab is very tight and burpy down low.

    I have tried the AG500 with the Berg HS210 (somewhat similar voicing to the AE line) and it sounds glorious... even, punchy, big and smooth.

    The AE410 is around 65 pounds, and only 16 inches deep, so very easy to schlep. It has a spray on coating that is beautiful looking, but not the most heavy duty covering, so a padded cover is a MUST.

    I really think that might do the trick for you (the HS410 would sound great also, and be a little smoother, but also 25 pounds more). And, with the 4ohm impedance, it will get all the power from your AG500.

    IMO and with limited IME.

    Edit: The 310UL would REALLY take you in the wrong direction IMO. And finally, if you dig the volume and weight of the 410UL, you might consider the Markbass LMII. It's MUCH punchier and tight than the AG500, and a very good matchup with the 410UL (I or II). The LMII is not mid heavy, just not mid scooped. It is very, very even, and the low end is slightly attenuated (rolled off a touch higher it seems than the AG or 502). Hence, while it doesn't sound as 'glorious' as the 502 or AG500 in a solo setting, it sounds much more even, articulate, and punchy in a mix, especially with wider voiced cabs like the 410UL.
     
  4. PS. While I'm not high on the reliability of the EA stuff, the NL210/112 stack gets rave reviews for big, even punchy tone, and I would guess that would also be a nice voicing fit with the AG500 (since the NL210 has a LOT going on in the mids).

    To me, it would be a matter is I wanted a single cab solution like the AE410, or a multi-cab solution like the NL210/CXL112 stack.
     
  5. pedroferreira

    pedroferreira

    Feb 10, 2003
    Portugal
    Hey Ken. Thank you for your reply.
    I suspected that this would be your answer :bag: :p

    I like the AG500 and I'm not thinking of letting it go.
    I was afraid you suggest the AE410. First because of the comments of a very mid cab, then I never heard one and they aren't available in here.

    How do you compare it with the GS410 or even the Cxl (which has a mid bump around 1KHz).

    Do you think there's another cab in the Epi line that will be in my tonal goals with the AG500?

    It's easier to get Epi, Aguilar stuff for me in my country.
    If I go Bergantino or EA I have to import from the US or UK.

    Thank you,

    Pedro
     
  6. The AE410 does seem to have a mid peak at around 1K or so, BUT, it is much more even from the low mids through the mid mids than the CxL to my ear. It's more mid 'full' sounding.

    I don't think there is anything in the Epi line that sounds particularly good with the AG500 (again, assuming you want some 'burp and punch' to your tone.

    Actually, if you don't mind the weight, the Aguilar DB line has similar big low end as the GS line, but more mid definition.

    Also, I was guite impressed with the GS212 cab in the GS line. It sounded a little more punchy and articulate than the other GS's to me.

    While I'm hesitant to suggest it, the combination of the NL210 and your CxL would probably sound killer. I don't have much faith in the NL210 from a reliability standpoint (more reports than I'm comfortable with of those drivers failing). However, they seem to take care of everyone. That very warm mid response of the NL210 seems to sit right in the middle of the CxL voicing, resulting in a nice, loud even response, and enough mids to really 'flatten out' that AG500.
     
  7. pedroferreira

    pedroferreira

    Feb 10, 2003
    Portugal
    The quality of my Cxl makes me think that the NL210 would be great. I love the finish, the Cxl is the only 12" speaker I know that can handle a loud gig, and I think I would love more (a solo) the NL210 than the Cxl.

    But now I've been reading the impedance issue. And the AG500 is only safe @ 4 ohm minimum :bawl:
     
  8. The impedance issue should be no problem, as long as the NL and Cxl are both 8ohms. Yes, from what I understand, the nominal impedance of the NL210 is slightly lower than advertised, but it won't be a problem with the AG500 at all. My guess is, the amp will see a very slightly lower than 4ohm impedance when you combine those two 8ohm cabs, and that is no issue for the vast majority of amps. For some reason, the LMII seems very sensitive to this, and that's the head that is associated with this impedance issue.

    +1 on the 112... I haven't heard any reliability issues with that model over and above what you would expect. Unfortunately, the NL210 is a somewhat different situation. However, you would hope that EA has made some additional revisions to reduce this issue, so you are probably OK, especially with an 8ohm model that will only see around 250 watts from the AG500.

    K
     
  9. Big String

    Big String Supporting Member

    Apr 22, 2000
    Northwest Indiana
    AE410 + LMII = :D
     
  10. pedroferreira

    pedroferreira

    Feb 10, 2003
    Portugal
    I think I will go with the NL210 :hyper:

    Most of my shows i only need one cab (the cxl handles it fine) I think the NL210 will do it too and it weights only 37lbs :bassist:

    The big shows I'll bring both.

    Feel free to post your opinions.

    Thanks for you help (especially Ken)

    Pedro
     
  11. pedroferreira

    pedroferreira

    Feb 10, 2003
    Portugal
    I'm back on searching.
    I don't know if I will buy the NL210.

    I'm keeping my eyes on Ken's recommendation: AE410

    My sound is my Sadowsky RV5 with 15% bass boost and the AG500 flat.
    With this combo and my GS410 I got a slight bump in the 150-250Hz area, that was the reason I sold it.

    Hey Ken:
    Do you think I will have the same problem with the AE410.
    I keep hearing comments from you guys that this cab has a low mid bump?!?!?

    Thanks in advance.

    Pedro
     

  12. Hello again!

    It sounds like the search goes on!

    I don't think the AE410 has a bump in the low mids versus that it just has a bit of attenuation in the deep lows, making it sound very tight and punchy (and to some, low mid oriented). It's very even in the mids, but since it doesn't have that huge, deep low end like the 410UL, it sounds 'mid-rangy. If you don't want it really tight and punchy, it would probably not be for you. However, the AG500 will soften and widen it a bit, so hard to say. I again find that AG500 very picky regarding which cabs it sound good with. A 'voiced' head like the AG500 always seems to me to sound GREAT with some cabs and not so good with others, versus a head with a somewhat more neutral voice like the LMII or Thunderfunk that just seems to sound good with darn near everything.

    I love the AE410, but it is quite tight, and IMO it does have a LOT of 100hz-250hz in its voice (that 'punch' sort of area in the bass guitar frequency range). While it can sound a bit 'congested' for lack of a better term when played solo, it is pretty smoking in a mix (i.e., when you A/B the AE410 versus the 410UL, it sounds REALLY midrangey, and the UL's sound very scooped in direct comparison). The AE410 IMO automatically slots the bass right where it should be in many mixes... on top of the bass drum and under everything else.

    IMO... hard to describe these subtle tone issues.
     
  13. pedroferreira

    pedroferreira

    Feb 10, 2003
    Portugal

    Thank you Ken.

    And its even harder to buy without trying :p
     
  14. I know the feeling. It's hard for any of us to try any of this high end stuff prior to buying, since the distribution is so spotty. It's rare to find a shop that carries any of the fancy stuff, and if they do, they usually only carry one or two brands.

    I've been pretty lucky with translating the reviews that many give here into a pretty good idea of the general sound of a piece of gear, but I've had some nasty surprised also with some stuff that looked perfect on paper and in the descriptions, but just didn't work for me.

    The good news with this high end stuff is you can turn it pretty quickly and get at least most of you money back in the shortrun if you really don't dig it.

    K
     
  15. esoxhntr

    esoxhntr Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2007
    Markham, Ontario
    Hi Pedro,

    I've been addressing this issue with my AG500SC for just over a month now. couldn't find anything from Aguilar that gave me the definition I needed live, though the GS212 was close. I was an EA fan too, but worry about the reliability issues. I used to really love my VL110 cabs, but they were very heavy, and it took a really big amp to drive them properly.

    My go to rig now is a Bergantino HS210/HT112 stack. Loud, full, punchy, and clean would describe the sound. It really is a remarkable setup, and works extremely well with the AG500. If you are willing to by used, there are a couple of these for sale here on Talkbass right now. An HS210/EX112 stack works just as well (I turn off the tweeter when I have the HT112 in use).
     
  16. pedroferreira

    pedroferreira

    Feb 10, 2003
    Portugal
    I'm looking for a light solution with tolex, cover spray, etc. I don't want carpet in my cabs anymore.
    That's why I'm asking about AE line.

    One question: How do you stack the 112 and the 210? They don't match. Right?

    Pedro
     
  17. esoxhntr

    esoxhntr Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2007
    Markham, Ontario
    Ah, didn't see the "no carpet" in your post. Sorry...

    The HS210 and HT112 actually stack quite well, all you have to do is turn the HS210 cab on its side, and the it matches up pretty much perfectly with the HS112. Here's a picture of it at the bottom of page 6 of this thread:

    http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6671297#post6671297

    The HS210 also sounds great - but doesn't stack quite so well - with the HT112EX.

    I have also heard that the AE210 and AE112 work quite well in the same configuration, but I haven't tried them myself, and I don't know how the AE cabs work with the AG500SC.
     
  18. 76Dub

    76Dub Guest

    Jul 9, 2008
    FWIW the AG500 and Bergantino HS410 is a match made in heaven bro!
     
  19. pedroferreira

    pedroferreira

    Feb 10, 2003
    Portugal
    Thanks guys for your input.

    I chose this:

    [​IMG]

    Pedro
     

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