All you older folks...

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by MurdocRocks, Feb 28, 2006.

  1. MurdocRocks


    Jun 18, 2005
    Torrance, CA
    I have a question sort of related to All_Your_Bass's thread.

    When you were growing up, were kids in highschool like this too? I'm a junior, and I notice so many of my friends have problems, and a lot just want to quit school. Problems meaning various sorts of problems: bulemia, depression, cutting, attempting suicide, and other things too.

    Are all these products of today's media, or have they been around in the past too?
  2. Skeezix


    Sep 28, 2005
    Jacksonville, FL
    Let's see...
    I graduated high school in 1978. Knew at least a half dozen people that attempted suicide, two were successful. One friend that managed to get down to 75 lbs. She lived.
    I went to most of my classes, heh-heh. Much drugs in school, more drinking in school. Much sex, much violence, much death and destruction.
    Basically same stuff, better coverage.
  3. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    We had a few of that type now and then, but it does seem to me that it's much more widespread now. (I graduated in '66.)

    This is a different world. In the age of instant worldwide communication, bad news travels fast, and it seems that the news media are more interested in turning a buck by spinning the news than they are in giving us a balanced view of what's going on. There were depressing things back then, too, but it wasn't a steady stream pushed into our faces day after day.

    As much as I go the "tough love" route with some of the younger folks in here, I do believe that it's harder to cope today. I am typically optimistic, even in the face of adversity, some of it severe, but that's at least partially attributable to my experience, which has shown me that I can weather the storm. It's harder for younger people to draw on the inner strengths acquired by such experience, because they just haven't lived long enough to gain that self-confidence.

    I think it also has to do with a shift in social values toward a reluctance to embrace individual responsibility. The whole political correctness movement is a symptom of this insidious social disease. People's skin has gotten so thin that the cancer of PC has stifled our ability to communicate frankly and directly. A growing segment of the population clamors for its unearned entitlements, not caring that they are killing the goose that laid the golden egg (that would be capitalism, to you).

    So yeah, you're right. Get over it.
  4. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    One other thing of interest. I was discussing this with some of my high school classmates a few weeks ago at the committee meeting for our upcoming 40th reunion. The class of '66 was the last innocent class. Most people in our class didn't even know anyone who was on drugs. The class of '67 was the first class that was allowed to grow long hair. They also had much more widespread drug use than we did. I really believe the advent of socially accepted drug use has contributed to this decline in the mental health of high school students.

    Discipline in our class was much more strict. So strict, in fact, that students nowadays would be filing a lawsuit a week over some of our school rules. We were in school to learn. I think this change in perspective is also at least partially responsible for one of the biggest disasters brewing in our country ... a severe shortage of engineers and scientists.

    Many students today lack the discipline and focus to major in technical fields. So we're going to end up being a second-rate country to the likes of China and India. China will graduate about 600,000 engineers this year. The U.S. will graduate about 59,000. You don't have to be an engineer to see where this is going.

    If you think outsourcing high-tech jobs to other countries is bad now, wait 10 or 20 years. All those jobs will be going overseas, and along with it our economy, which used to be the strongest in the world. China doesn't have to get into an arms race with us. They will eat us alive economically. So if you're going to major in psychology or philosophy, learn thes words, and learn them well:

    "Did you want the meal with that, sir, or just the sandwich?"
  5. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    Whew! I feel better now.
  6. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Terrific Twister

    Apr 12, 2001
    Lacey, WA
    I graduated in 1989. Smoking pot was the big "problem" in high school. Gangs were just starting to creep into the area. I remember in middle school when this black guy moved to our school from the L.A. area. One day, he brought a knife to school in his duffle bag. Everyone was afraid of him. Plus, he had a scary sounding name....Diego.

    Anyway....I knew a few girls who got pregnant and dropped out of school, and a couple buddies who dropped out to get a full time job. One guy makes big bucks running an HVAC shop, and the other owns the largest motorcycle shop in town.

  7. Bryan R. Tyler

    Bryan R. Tyler TalkBass: Usurping My Practice Time Since 2002 Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    May 3, 2002
    We can only pray that the future leaders of the world will be decides by post count.
  8. cheezewiz


    Mar 27, 2002
    I graduated in 1982, and it seems worse to me now. The main problems we saw in high school were beer, pot, and pregnancy. I had never heard of "cutting", that seems to be a recent phenomena. Suicides or attempts happened, but certainly not very often.
  9. I guess it's all where you live.

    I graduated in 2001. Not too long ago. From what I remember, though, we didn't have a lot of problems. Yeah, sure, there were the druggies, but that's been a problem in the school system for decades, and our problems weren't that bad. My graduating year had only 3 not finish. Out of 367. Not too bad.

    I think we only had a couple of attempted suicides, but they were people that I didn't know. We did have one student die, but that was from cancer. Cancer doesn't respect age limits.:(

    As for me, well, I had my own problems with depression, as does every teen. But I never resorted to drugs (allergic to most of them anyway:rolleyes: ) and I didn't have sex much, thought not for lack of trying.;)

    In point of fact, I'm really proud of my graduating year. Lowest non-graduation rate in state history, lowest drop-out rate in 25 years, highest average GPA in 10 years, highest average SAT scores in 10 years, and 13th highest math and writing test scores IN THE NATION!! Yeah, our football team sucked, but we sent one kid to Oxford, another to Cambridge, and 6 to Stanford. I thought that my 1420 SAT was good, but we had 11 over 1500, and one at 1590!! We had natural leaders, actors, mechanics, you name it. Plus, we were blessed with some REALLY good teachers, who all retired about 2 years after we finished. We were their coup de grace.

    Rock on
  11. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    I truly believe there was nothing wrong with getting caned or disciplined - I went through junior school terrified of this and because of that, I never got in trouble and it never happend to me! :smug:

    Nobody in that school had any "problems" like those mentioned at the start of this thread - "bulemia, depression, cutting, attempting suicide" etc. etc.

    You had to do physical activity, you had to do as the teachers said or else (!)- you ate the school meals they put in front of you as there was nothing else - no choice.

    I think the problem nowadays is too much choice - children need direction, they need somebody to set their boundaries - they don't need endless choice - just upsets 'em! :meh:
  12. actually, while I've just graduated few years ago the problem isn't so much the fact there's something inherently wrong with some(others yes definatly, but it's another discussion and I'm not about to discuss my opinion on that here, my main point is next). The problem in my opinion is the lack of a clear method of dealing with it. there's two way's you can go, the hard line strict discipline method, which undoubtedly works to some extent, and the liberal(not politically liberal per don't go into that :p) teach them it's not that special and explain it all approach which works to some extent too. What DOESN'T work is not talking about it, not thinking about it, leaving them to themselves, punish sporadically, be liberal sporadically. Now I'm Dutch, so I'm keen on compromises, but not here on this subject.

    It's the same for education, either you need a traditional strict system, or one which promotes creativity and self initiative, not one that hangs in between.

    so basically what I'm saying choose either one or another approach, but don't hang in between and not decide anything, in my opinion that doesn't work with these things I think.

    (oh by the way I was in the creativity and self initiative thing, which worked great for me(although I'm not becoming an engineer, because my strengths don't lie in maths or science, I do find those subjects fascinating, but I do better at philosophy and languages etc.(ain't I useless;)))
  13. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    I think you can encourage creativity in class work, while maintaining strict control over discipline at all other times.

    I was encouraged to do projects that interested me, read what books I liked and take exams early, if I was up to it - but why does any of that mean you need to have freedom to dress how you like,eat junk food and use drink/drugs etc etc....? :meh:
  14. oh maybe I didn't explain that clearly, how you handle drugs and drinking and how you handle school were two seperate things for me

    so as for drugs and other misbehavior, either you forbid it completely or you don't nescessarily forbid it but you put the nescessary time into 'explaining' it all(bit vague, I know)

    I got it all well explained, and while I'm absolutely not someone with a lot of selfdiscipline I was never tempted to buy weed, it wasn't cool because it was allowed and you knew what it was about, and ending as an inspiration for requiem for a dream didn't work for me either, of course there will be people going all out, but that's with both systems, beeing strict doesn't work for everyone either.
    but if you say you're strict about it and you still allow it, like it happens a lot, or you just don't talk about it at all, you're inviting problems

    as for school of course you can inspire creativity in a strict system, but I was thought to handle responsability, and had good ratings, with me was all my class(out of 100 students there were three who had to redo last year, they succeeded the second time too) this without excessive discipline, well, almost no strict discipline and I have the feeling I've gotten further maybe not in grades but in how I do in life than some people I know who've been to rather strict disciplined schools
    The problem I think would be schools that hang in between, that succeed at neither, that want to give responsablility and but in the end don't deliver

    this is of course a real broad outline and just my personal ideas written down in a few minutes, don't see it as my final statement that won't change, it's just some personal incoherent thoughts put out to maybe aid this topic
  15. BassChuck


    Nov 15, 2005
    I graduated in '70. All the problems that are listed in this thread were present in the school at the time, but not in the numbers that we apparently have today. Girls who were preg. were taken away to live some place else. We just didn't talk about these things. But if I had wanted drugs I did know where to go to get them.... however I would have had to make the move, they weren't in my face.

    A point to make however is that we were involved in a war where kids were drafted. We were told that Vietnam could escalate into a nuclear world war. This was a present feeling all the time, and stories of past grads who were drafted were talked about. There was plenty of urban unrest... campus unrest. It felt like we were about to be pushed into a dangerous world.

    As far as discpline goes.. it WAS stricter. Parents were as unsure of the future as we were. (fewer children today have 2 parents at home... this is a big deal). And.... every male teacher I had in High School was a WWII or Korean War vet... every one of them. They felt they were training the youth of America for war.

    In short, 40 years ago we were afraid for the people.... today I think we a little more afraid for ourselves.
  16. Woodchuck


    Apr 21, 2000
    Atlanta / Macon (sigh)
    Gallien Krueger for the last 12 years!
    I graduated in 84, and we had all of that, except that cutting. That silliness belongs to you kids. In my day, you didn't have to cut yourself, someone was always willing to do it for you!
  17. Joe Nerve

    Joe Nerve Supporting Member

    Oct 7, 2000
    New York City
    Endorsing artist: Musicman basses, Hipshot products
    I graduated over a couple of decades ago. Ahhh... the good ol days. Racial riots. Blacks and whites fighting every single day, for no other reason than their skin color. Qualudes, pot, tuinals, hash, coke, mescalin. I knew at least 2 kids that had guns. I used to light up a cigarette the second the schoolbell rang, right inside the classroom, it was common, and I was one of the good kids. Any girl I ever went out with was anorexic or bulimic (I like thin girls :)). I almost committed suicide. Good friend of mine attempted it. Another succeeded. He was a drummer. Another friend went to his house the week after and asked his parents if he could have the dead kids drums. Drummers. My drummer from that time (in a band I was in from age 17 to 23) last year killed 2 people and then himself. Yep, people from back then had it together.

    Oh yeah, by the way - I went to New Utrecht H.S. in Bklyn. That's the school in Welcome Back Kotter, and the show came out while I was there, and was modelled after my friends which were the first "alternate" school people in our neighborhood at the time. I think they call it special ed these days.
  18. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Sounds very "special"....;)
  19. Joe Nerve

    Joe Nerve Supporting Member

    Oct 7, 2000
    New York City
    Endorsing artist: Musicman basses, Hipshot products
    Oh, I forgot to mention that aside from all the Mafia guys killing each other every other day, I grew up in a fairly nice neighborhood.
  20. pointbass

    pointbass Semi-Retired Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Nov 4, 2004
    Acworth, GA
    Endorsing Artist: FBB Bass Works
    Two excellent posts, Mungi, also the two longest posts I've ever read from you ....... :eek:

    I graduated in '69, and as Munji said, my class was right on the turning edge of the age of non-conformity. I have no recollection of serious depression, suicide, alcoholism or serious drug abuse during my HS years, but times were changing quickly and within a couple of years after I graduated all of these issues were commonplace in my hometown (Nutley, NJ).

    It would never have crossed my mind to back-talk to my Mom & Dad like so many kids do today .... not for fear of a beating, but rather out of the respect I was taught to give my elders. Attraction to the opposite sex has been present since the start of time, but my age group wasn't as blatent about it, certainly not the way it seems to be today.

    Media plays a huge role, but so does the preponderance of wealth that exists in this country today. Even those of you that feel like you're poor are in much better financial positions then guys like me and Munji were in HS.

    Finally, peer pressure is enormous and our ability to communicate instantly has only exaggerated this problem. Many of the younger people today are left feeling less than worthy because they don't have the newest and greatest.

    I wouldn't want to be a kid today, that's for sure ......