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Alternative to Foster Horn

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Malachi71, Mar 3, 2008.


  1. Malachi71

    Malachi71

    Oct 11, 2007
    Generally speaking, in a 2-way cab, what other companies make horns that sound better than the Foster horn? It seems that many people here do not like this horn.


    What brand is used in Dr. Bass? Is it better sounding than the Foster?
     
  2. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    The problem isn't the horn, the problem is the frequency at which it kicks in. The average tweeter runs from about 4kHz to 15kHz, and that's at least an octave too high. A midrange driver that runs 1kHz to 2kHz / 5 to 7kHz gives a much better result, but since it's more expensive than a tweeter you seldom see them used.
     
  3. 57pbass

    57pbass Supporting Member

  4. Malachi71

    Malachi71

    Oct 11, 2007
    As and example of a company that uses the Foster Horn, I emailed Dave at Avatar to see what the crossover frequency is on the newer crossover used in the bass cabs. He said it was 3900Hz with a full 12dB/octave slope. Is this a good crossover point and dB slope for the Foster Horn?

    The Deltalite II 10" and 12" both have a useable frequency to 4kHz.
     
  5. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    No, they don't, and that's the problem. No ten or twelve is good much past 2.5kHz. Bruce Gavin measured an Avatar neo 4x10, on-axis there's a huge dip between the woofer and tweeter responses, and off-axis it would be even worse. This symptom isn't peculiar to Avatar, it's a common ailment.
     
  6. Rob Mancini

    Rob Mancini Guest

    Feb 26, 2008
    How do they get away with over-inflating the specs? And why haven't people called them on it sooner?
     
  7. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    There is no standard in the electric bass cab industry for what constitutes 'useable response', so they can't be called out for failing to meet a spec that doesn't exist.
     
  8. Malachi71

    Malachi71

    Oct 11, 2007
    I agree with you. If what Bill's says is true that a 10" and 12" aren't good past 2.5kHz, then Eminence shouldn't be aloud to say that the Deltalite 10 and 12 are good to 4kHz.
     
  9. Malachi71

    Malachi71

    Oct 11, 2007
    When you say on-axis and off-axis, specifically, what are you referring to?

    If Avatar were to use a crossover at 2.5kHz, would that solve the problem of the dip?
     
  10. asad137

    asad137

    Jan 18, 2007
    Minneapolis
    Physicist
    On-axis: directly in front of the speaker

    off-axis: off to the side

    The "axis" in this case refers to an imaginary line drawn from the center of the speaker and extending straight outward, directly in front.

    Asad
     
  11. Rob Mancini

    Rob Mancini Guest

    Feb 26, 2008
    Standing on axis: in front of the speaker.
    Standing off-axis: off to the side.

    It can also mean stacking the speakers so that the drivers are exactly vertically aligned.
     
  12. Malachi71

    Malachi71

    Oct 11, 2007
    Bill,

    Are there any bass cabinet companies that you know of that do not have this "common ailment."
     
  13. Rob Mancini

    Rob Mancini Guest

    Feb 26, 2008
    I mean no offense, but you have to understand my reason for asking this when you give an answer like that:

    How is your info more reliable than theirs?
     
  14. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Eminence doesn't say that. They do publish on-axis response charts for their drivers, but that's all. The cab's claimed response comes from the cab manufacturer, not Eminence.
    Yes, but that would require a different HF driver, horn and crossover, adding considerably to the cab cost, which isn't practical at Avatar's price point. If you decide to swap it out going with a driver and horn capable of crossing over at 2 to 2.5khz would be the way to go.
     
  15. Malachi71

    Malachi71

    Oct 11, 2007
    Thank you to asad137 and Rob for clarifying on and off axis.
     
  16. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    3-way cabs or 2-ways with a woofer and midrange rather than woofer and tweeter will generally have better response.
     
  17. Malachi71

    Malachi71

    Oct 11, 2007
     
  18. Malachi71

    Malachi71

    Oct 11, 2007
    Thanks Bill for you input!
     
  19. nysbob

    nysbob

    Sep 14, 2003
    Cincinnati OH
    I'd much prefer a 5" or 6" cone driver to a compression horn - just my opinion.
     
  20. BbbyBld

    BbbyBld

    Oct 13, 2005
    Meridian, MS
    I like the Foster driver ok.

    I liked the APT driver made by Eminence last time I tried it.
     

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