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Am I being difficult??

Discussion in 'Band Management [BG]' started by Juniorkimbrough, Jan 17, 2006.

  1. Juniorkimbrough


    Mar 22, 2005
    Mississippi / Memphis, TN
    Endorsing Artist: Lakland Basses
    First off I've been playing with my main band for just over a year now, we weren't gigging as much as I'd like so I joined a second band.

    Well the second band has been together for about 4 months now, as of now we've played two gigs with two more coming up very soon. One of the guys is from Iowa and here going to college, well he's got the idea for our band to travel to Iowa for one weekend and play two gigs. We are based out of Memphis, TN so Iowa is quite a haul especially just for one weekend. Well everyone but me wants to go do these gigs, but personally I have some problems with these "gigs". 1. We have ZERO money guaranteed to us for either gig, we will be playing for the door which could be good but could be very bad. 2. During this time they are trying to make this trip is our busiest time of the year where I work and by me taking off Fri. I could possibly lose a lot of commision and I find it hard to justify me missing work for a no money guarantee gig 20 hours round trip away.

    With us just starting to gig I feel we are taking our steps too big too quickly and it would be much better for us to book two local gigs and work on our local fanbase. If we go play Iowa, when we come back that's it......none of those folks from there will be coming to see us, so basically it's a wasted trip as far as trying to win over some fans that will come to shows.

    If we were guaranteed some money and/or it were only 4 or 5 hours away where I wouldn't have to take off work it would be fine.......but with the no money guaranteed plus us having to drive 20 hours round trip, basically I think this trip is stupid and a waste of time. Everyone else in the band keeps saying how fun it will be and they are probably right, but having fun isn't always a good thing especially with something you are trying to work at like this.

    Am I being difficult or am I making sense?
  2. Aaron Saunders

    Aaron Saunders

    Apr 27, 2002
    IMO, it wouldn't be a safe move for you to do that. No money guarantee, taking off work, and driving 20 hours round trip? That's all I'd have to hear before giving them a resounding "no."
  3. Juniorkimbrough


    Mar 22, 2005
    Mississippi / Memphis, TN
    Endorsing Artist: Lakland Basses
    The guy from Iowa has played at one of the bars before and he says we'll probably make anywhere from $200-$1000. While $1000 would be nice, it could be as bad as $200 while would probably mean us loosing money.
    I just don't feel comfortable going that far for that little money.
  4. DaftCat


    Jul 26, 2004
    Medicine Hat
    Don't say yes if you mean no.
  5. Makes sense to me. I wont drive 15 minutes downtown for a gig unless I'm getting paid. Guaranteed that is.

    As far as I am concerned accepting a gig that has no guarantee of making money should be a unanimous decision by the entire band. If they want someone they can have fun with let them hire Pee-Wee Herman to play bass.

    I can understand where they are coming from but it sounds like they are not on the same page as you. Personally, I would question the person who booked the gig and ask him what he was thinking.

    Does he have travel and lodging expenses covered or is that going to come out of pocket too?

    Sounds like he just wants to play in his home town for the weekend.
  6. Juniorkimbrough


    Mar 22, 2005
    Mississippi / Memphis, TN
    Endorsing Artist: Lakland Basses
    yea, stay at his parents house. :meh: :meh: :meh: :meh: :eyebrow: :eyebrow: :eyebrow: :eyebrow:

    Exactly what I was thinking!

    The gig isn't booked just yet, we've been talking about it.
    I've voiced my opinion pretty strongly and while I think they understand about me missing work, they still don't get the no guaranteed pay deal and not wanting to drive 20 hours round trip.

    If everyone else in the band says they want to do it I will go ahead and do it this one time just because I really like this band and everyone is really motivated and we've got a lot accomplished over the few months we've been together. We've also been getting quite a nice sized fanbase very quickly and I have been very happy with our live performances as well as recordings.
  7. guy n. cognito

    guy n. cognito Secret Agent Member Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 28, 2005
    Nashville, TN
    Sounds like a giant waste of time to me. One gig 10 hours away does not a fanbase make.
  8. msquared


    Sep 19, 2004
    Kansas City
    You aren't being difficult. They are.

    Traveling to play music is fun. Some of my best performance memories involve losing money to go to another state and play music. But you aren't going to get much in Iowa without a fanbase, and that fact needs to be put on the table if you guys don't individually have slush funds sitting around. A grand for a band nobody knows about? Is this person serious?
  9. Slater

    Slater Leave that thing alone. Supporting Member

    Apr 17, 2000
    The Great Lakes State
    I wouldn't recommend doing that either. Then you'll set a precedent and you'll get, "You did it before, why can't you do it again?"
  10. Tingly


    Jul 16, 2005
    Yonkers, NY
    Yeah. Sounds stupid.
  11. Do they understand how long a 20 hour round trip in one weekend actually is? Personally, I'm completely tired out after one weekend of going up to see my in-laws, who live four hours north of here near the UP border. I can imagine I'd be completely worn out and pissed off after a 20 hour round trip.

    Rationalize it to them. Explain to them how much money you'd be losing if you take off work. (If you don't know exactly, ballpark it). Stick to your guns and tell them that while the gig may end up being fun, you can't commit to the gig if you can't be guaranteed some minimum amount of pay ($100 or $200, whatever you're comfortable with, but be reasonable). If they aren't willing to work it out, tell them they'll have to find a sit-in for the gig.
  12. You're making perfect sense. Sounds like your Iowa member wants to mostly go show off for his friends. Nothing wrong with that, but without a serious $ guarantee for the gigs it's all just pointless vanity.
  13. Juniorkimbrough


    Mar 22, 2005
    Mississippi / Memphis, TN
    Endorsing Artist: Lakland Basses
    The trip has been halted for now. Most of these guys are fairly new to the gigging scene, I'm still a bit new myself but I've become a little less naive than I used to be, and they don't find money to be a big issue. I've explained to them after my previous incident over money not being explained up front that I NEED to know what we are getting paid if we are guaranteed or if we are playing for the door, how much of the cover we get, etc.
    I hate to talk about money with them so much, but they keep setting it aside and I have to bring up the topic.

    Anyways I'm not going to Iowa to make $200 and spend 3/4 of it on the trip itself. I've driven 14 hours round trip and it killed me, too much driving too much time being in a car.....20 hours of driving doesn't sound like "fun" to me. ya know. :)
  14. Sounds like you held your ground and things worked out for the best. It's probably best to focus on getting gigs in your main area right now, anyway.
  15. Hmmm let's reason this out.

    10 hours each way with out of pocket expenses for gas, tolls, food, maybe some misc change.
    10 hours back with the same out of pocket expenses.

    OK a place to crash is provided. That can be good or not too good depending on the parents but I would guess that to be a good thing.

    The rewards are playing in front of an unknown amount of people for a piece of the door. Who watches the door and counts the people?

    Personally when an owner says to play for the door/cover charge I tend to become scarce. To me that is the owners way of not putting money out of his pocket to pay the band.
    That forces the band to try and drag it's own "crowd" in order to make money.
    Here's the twist. The more people you bring in, the more the owner makes from the sales of drinks which could easily be a profit margin of 200% or more.
    If you don't bring in people the owner still makes some type of profit with the established clientele.

    Better to just go to your friends, relatives, etc and just ask for $5 from each of them. Saves time and trouble.

    Yep, it's the same old, "I need a band to entertain my customers, but I won't give the band a shred of respect or a dime for what they do."

    Hmmmmmm, I'd say have a nice karaoke.
  16. txbasschik


    Nov 11, 2005
    Leander, Texas
    Honey, I wouldn't take that gig on a dare. That is much too far away, and costs you too much, to be taking such a risk when you have no guaranteed pay. Either get a guarantee of a certain amount of money, or don't do it. Fun is great, but that is awfully far away to go on a "just for fun" gig.

    Iowa Guy's family and friends prolly want to see him play. That's nice, but it don't butter the bread. The people you will be depending on to come see you over and over will not be there, and those people from Iowa are not going to come to TN to see you. Cultivate a local following...*then* take a road gig.

    If they say, "Oh, you're no fun!", tell them that you'll be happy to go later in the year, when it is not so busy at work, and after you have cultivated more of a following at home, and when the venue is willing to guarantee you a minimum amount of money.

    BTW, my husband's people live in the Memphis area. When we come to town, I'll let you know, so we can come and see you play! :)

  17. I just looked at a map of the USA. :eek: Yikes!!! Is this Iowa boy nuts?! Don't go!
  18. Juniorkimbrough


    Mar 22, 2005
    Mississippi / Memphis, TN
    Endorsing Artist: Lakland Basses
    lol, yea i know.....
  19. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    Try this on 'em: "No. It's too dumb."
  20. spectorbass83


    Jun 6, 2005
    i think you are being reasonablle. 20 hour road trip and no money guaranteed, plus you have to take time off work and lose even more money?? hmmmm....I would find out more info about the venue you are playing at - see if its a popular place and if there is usually a big crowd. If you find out its a dive, then screw it.