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American Standard vs American Series

Discussion in 'Basses [BG]' started by Anthony, Jul 26, 2000.


  1. Anthony

    Anthony

    Mar 30, 2000
    Hello All,
    Well, now that the release of the new Fender's was basically a bust, does anyone think that the STD Basses will ever be Collectibles? If anyone told me that 70's and 80's Era Basses would be so high, I would have said they were crazy. Anyway, thoughts comments, whatever?
     
  2. gmstudio99

    gmstudio99

    Mar 11, 2000
    Cleveland, OH
    A bust? How so?

    -GM
     
  3. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Commercial User

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    Boom Bass Cabinets, DR strings
    Kind of curious about that one myself [​IMG]
     
  4. Anthony

    Anthony

    Mar 30, 2000
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gmstudio99:
    A bust? How so?

    -GM
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I'm good friends with the owner of one of the local Fender Dealers and he was at the Namm show. He felt that they are basically, (no pun intended), the same instruments, with minor modifications. I never expected Fender to drastically change their Classic Instruments. I'm not sure what I thought they would do. But, with all the secrecy involved and such, I guess I expected more.
     
  5. gmstudio99

    gmstudio99

    Mar 11, 2000
    Cleveland, OH
    Fair enough, and I agree that I wasn't expecting major modifications myself.

    However, the tweaks they made to the entire line (Strat, Tele, P and J) were all things that customers had been asking for. It's a wonderful demonstration of a company responding to customer requests and enhancing a very successful line through simple evolution.

    IMO, the Strat received the most "benefit" from the new modifications, and the changes to that guitar should make it substantially better than before.

    I wouldn't categorize the new series as a "bust", however...quite the opposite...

    -GM
     
  6. Anthony

    Anthony

    Mar 30, 2000
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gmstudio99:
    Fair enough, and I agree that I wasn't expecting major modifications myself.

    However, the tweaks they made to the entire line (Strat, Tele, P and J) were all things that customers had been asking for. It's a wonderful demonstration of a company responding to customer requests and enhancing a very successful line through simple evolution.

    IMO, the Strat received the most "benefit" from the new modifications, and the changes to that guitar should make it substantially better than before.

    I wouldn't categorize the new series as a "bust", however...quite the opposite...

    -GM
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I understand your point. Fender has come a LONG way since the CBS days.
    Another point, is when they had the Amercan STD, and then they released the Deluxe Series. Brilliant. Fender's for those that want the traditional Basses, and the more modern Deluxe Series w/active electronics and such. THAT was News to me.
     
  7. gmstudio99

    gmstudio99

    Mar 11, 2000
    Cleveland, OH
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anthony:
    Fender has come a LONG way since the CBS days. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Completely agree...the stuff they've put out the last 5 years or so in particular is exceptional.

    -GM
     
  8. Anthony

    Anthony

    Mar 30, 2000
    I'm enjoying the turn my original post is taking, but I'm really interested what others think about the Collectable Issue. Add that into whatever other comments you have.
    bye...
     
  9. Old Blue

    Old Blue

    Mar 18, 2000
    Texas
    Just my opinion, but it seems to me that any American made Fender that hasn't been extensively modified becomes somewhat collectable after about a dozen years or so. And of course, the longer it goes past that dozen years, the higher its value moves.
     
  10. Bernie

    Bernie

    Dec 12, 1999
    As far as collector value goes i dont think much will change from this.What i dont get is the part about the changes on the new series being what EVERYONE was asking for.Ive NEVER come across a post where someone said they wished that fender would roll the edges of the fingerboards.I have seen some complaints about the lack of QC on fretwork,neck pocket fit.Also some questions about the makeup of the bodys.But no one seemed to concerned/complained about the use of veneers.What i have seen were requests for more finnish options already available on one model but not another.Better tuners,bridges.Which alot of folks replace even on the A Std/dlx models as well as the MIMs.None of the changes are substantial or justify a price increase of 100 bucks IMHO.Other than better fretwork NONE of the changes made were asked for and NONE of the other improvements we HAVE asked for were incorporated in the new line.Seems like much ado about nothing.About the only thing that will get me jazzed about the new line is IF i find a dealer closing out the old line at killer prices.THAT would be an improvement to me.Good luck!
     
  11. gmstudio99

    gmstudio99

    Mar 11, 2000
    Cleveland, OH
    I agree with Old Blue...unmodified Fenders will eventually appreciate in value, especially if they remain in excellent condition.

    I bought my son a MIA Strat from the year he was born (99) as an investment for him to do with as he wishes when he's 21.

    -GM
     
  12. gmstudio99

    gmstudio99

    Mar 11, 2000
    Cleveland, OH
    Bernie

    What about the old "swimming pool" routes in the Strats? Or the redesigned bodies on all 4 models?

    -GM
     
  13. Bernie

    Bernie

    Dec 12, 1999
    Im not a guitar player so i havnt looked into the changes on them.Supposedly from what little ive heard the guitars DID get more/substantial improvements.The body changes on the basses is very slightly different contours on the edges as i understand it.Were the bodys/necks all that uncomfortable before.Certainly not to me.
     
  14. Blackbird

    Blackbird Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Mar 18, 2000
    California
    I think that we should face the fact that what basically happenned was a name change. I don't know about the rest of you, but to own a "standard" instrument makes it sound like there's nothing special about it, seeing that standard can also mean "average", as in not great but good enough. On the other hand, saying it's "The american P or J bass adds emphasis to the fact that it's made in the U.S., as opposed to some knockoff from the east.

    The main difference is the name. If Fender is making the best instrument they can as they claim, they shouldn't have to change it that much. The only reason they tweak the basses here and there is to make the current models more desirable than the older ones. Fender is probably the only musical instrument company that has to compete with its own used products.

    Will C. [​IMG]

    ------------------
    I'm not a genius. I'm just a hard working guy.
    -BW


     
  15. Anthony

    Anthony

    Mar 30, 2000
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Wheel:
    I think that we should face the fact that what basically happenned was a name change. I don't know about the rest of you, but to own a "standard" instrument makes it sound like there's nothing special about it, seeing that standard can also mean "average", as in not great but good enough. On the other hand, saying it's "The american P or J bass adds emphasis to the fact that it's made in the U.S., as opposed to some knockoff from the east.

    The main difference is the name. If Fender is making the best instrument they can as they claim, they shouldn't have to change it that much. The only reason they tweak the basses here and there is to make the current models more desirable than the older ones. Fender is probably the only musical instrument company that has to compete with its own used products.

    Will C. [​IMG]

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Great insight.

     
  16. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gmstudio99:
    I bought my son a MIA Strat from the year he was born (99) as an investment for him to do with as he wishes when he's 21.

    -GM
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    And you, of course, never play it....so as to keep its NOS value!

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Skip

    Skip

    Mar 22, 2000
    Bronxville, NY
    I spoke to a sales guy recently (I'm still looking) about the changes to the American Jazz. He told me that the major changes were that the body is a solid piece versus veneered, and that the neck had been changed slightly. He liked it much better than the old Standard - and considering the price difference was only $50 and there were more Standards in the store than Americans I don't think he was saying it to move inventory or make a commission. I'm not saying he's right and I did not have the time to play both (actually I didn't have time to try to play both) :)

    But my question is; what actually got changed? Does anyone have a comprehensive list? Opinions about how the changes helped/hurt the sound of the bass are also helpful.

    On a side note, I can see how simply going to a solid body raised the list price by $100 - especially if you consider the mark-up on the cost of the other parts. A three inch thick blank (which is only about 2 3/4 inches thick) is much more expensive than three one inch blanks glued together. It would be even more expensive if its quartersawn (prettier, more stable, less lumber per log) - but I expect that they're flatsawn (not as good looking, the wood will move more, higher yield per log).

    Thanks in advance.

     
  18. DaveB

    DaveB

    Mar 29, 2000
    Toronto Ontario
    On one hand Fender builds the guitars and basses that are still the reference for quality in the industry.Yeah, yeah, so their production line doesn't turn out Sadowski's. But if you like BMW's that doesn't make a Chev a bad car.
    Everything ( including Fender's other up and downscale models)is compared to American Standard or Series.Given their history you can't muck around too much with a good thing..especially if you're the leader.

    On the other hand they HAVE to be good marketers. They have to sell more to keep those shareholders happy.They can't ignore the buyers who go to the low and high end competitors and marketing, even seemingly shallow marketing, is crucial to doing this.

    Think of it this way. The fact that we are engaging in this series of post proves that Fender has achieved increased top of mind awareness at least in the short term. And that is a very, very good thing.Hey, whats the difference between a 2000 and a 1999 Ford. Not much, if anything.
     
  19. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Commercial User

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    Boom Bass Cabinets, DR strings
    Keep in mind "Standard" doesn't have to mean low end or less than good. The Fender Jazz and P bass are bonafide standards against which most other basses are judged and quite a few are based on.

    IMO anyone looking for drastic changes in these models doesn't understand the market. Evolution, not revolution.

    Remember "New Coke"?
     
  20. Rumblin' Man

    Rumblin' Man Banned

    Apr 27, 2000
    Route 66
    I checked out the American Series P and J at a local Fender dealer and the only difference I found was that the corner of the fretboard was relieved a bit with what may have been a file or a scraper. However, this seemingly insignificant change makes a big improvement in the feel of the neck, IMO. Now that I think about it, the relieved Fender neck feels a little more like a Rumblefish neck. Which is fine by me.

    I also compared them to a few American Standards Ps and Js and there was little if any difference in tone or appearance that I could find. The frets on all the instruments I looked at were finished well enough, so I didn't notice any real change there. The American Series frets may have been rounded off at the edge a tiny bit more but nothing major, very subtle and nothing I really noticed.

    I went home and took a scraper to the corners of the rosewood fretboard of my '99 American Standard J and voila, relieved neck in 5 minutes. I didn't even have to remove the strings. It plays much better now.

    I'm a bit hesitant to try scraping the corners off the fretboard of my '99 P bass with a finished maple neck though, since the finish will be scraped off with the corners. But wait, maybe if I used some Tru-Oil on the freshly scraped wood afterwards...hmmmmmmm.

    [Edited by Rumblin' Man on 08-09-2000 at 04:46 PM]