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amp for Sub bass

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by [CRTL+ALT+DEL], Apr 17, 2009.


  1. [CRTL+ALT+DEL]

    [CRTL+ALT+DEL] mad scientist

    May 25, 2008
    Brooklyn
    Hello, i'm experimenting with ultra low tunings, what would be a good amp to deliver the frequencies in the basement? svt4-pro?
     
  2. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Gold Supporting Member

    Aug 25, 2007
    Toronto Ontario Canada
    Most bass amp will reproduce frequencies lower that 20Hz. It's the cabinets that will be the trouble point. If you do go ahead with this make sure you add a high pass filter to protect your signal chain from sub-sonics which can wreck your speakers.

    Paul
     
  3. [CRTL+ALT+DEL]

    [CRTL+ALT+DEL] mad scientist

    May 25, 2008
    Brooklyn
    are there speakers that can handle sub sonics?
     
  4. ettsn

    ettsn

    Mar 29, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Of course, but there are follow-up questions:

    1. What kind of volume do you require?
    2. What kind of budget do you have in mind?
    3. What size/type venue do you intend to play this in?

    There are some very different answers to your inquiry based on your answers to the above!
     
  5. [CRTL+ALT+DEL]

    [CRTL+ALT+DEL] mad scientist

    May 25, 2008
    Brooklyn
    basically, if was to use extremely low tunings like jauqo, could i use an ampeg svtpro-4 with the 810 cab while hearing the low notes and not destroy the speakers?
     
  6. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Gold Supporting Member

    Aug 25, 2007
    Toronto Ontario Canada
    You'll not get too much below 60Hz from an Ampeg fridge and if you try you will damage the speakers.

    Why would anyone build a speaker that reproduces frequencies that are inaudible?

    Paul
     
  7. knuckle_head

    knuckle_head Commercial User

    Jul 30, 2002
    Seattle
    Owner; Knuckle Guitar Works & Circle K Strings
    How low is extremely low?

    There are solutions to be sure - some of them pretty spendy - and nearly all of them will fit in your basement.

    ;)
     
  8. [CRTL+ALT+DEL]

    [CRTL+ALT+DEL] mad scientist

    May 25, 2008
    Brooklyn
    i want to tune down to one note below jauqo, C 00, C G D A E. and i was speaking figuratively about basements. for some it's audible, others just feel it, jauqo claims to hear down to 8hz, average is 20 hz. my lowest string would be 16.35 hz
     
  9. knuckle_head

    knuckle_head Commercial User

    Jul 30, 2002
    Seattle
    Owner; Knuckle Guitar Works & Circle K Strings
    I knew you were speaking figuratively. :)

    As has been stated, your challenge will be a couple of other places. Amps reproduce what they're handed - it's up to the string to produce the full tonal structure and the speakers to spit it out.

    Your strings will be a challenge. Yves Carbonne uses La Bellas to get to 15.5 Hz B - perhaps an email to them or Big City Strings to special order something.

    As for speakers - how do you want to hear what you're playing? A parity rig is complicate and very spendy. Even a rig that is capable of the second harmonic is very difficult to come by. Is this something you are trying to do on the cheap?
     
  10. 'Cuz feeling is believing. To talk to elephants, cancel jet engine noise, or for amusement park simulator special effects.

    GASing for Servodrive since '97.
     
  11. gregoire1

    gregoire1

    Oct 19, 2008
    Nashville
    tactile transducers?
     
  12. Short answer: yes.

    Long answer: sort of. Your main problem to solve is going to be getting enough volume without your cab farting or your amp clipping. Cutting some of the inaudible lows (below 60 Hz or even a little higher, perhaps) will probably help quite a bit. A C0 is going to have a lot more going on in the audible (through a bass cab) range. For comparison, a C0 has 5 harmonics between 60 and 130 Hz (an arbitrary range), while an E1 has 2. In other words, the expanded low end is more demanding to reproduce, so you probably won't get the volume you'd get with a higher tuning.

    With that said, an 8x10 is a lot of speakers and the 33 Hz EQ slider will likely cut the extreme lows in a pleasing way. But I haven't done C0 through an 8x10; I'm just doing E0 through a 1x12, so take my guesstimation with a grain of salt.

    Still, there's no question you can use it. The only things up in the air are whether you'll get enough volume for your purpose and whether you like the tone.
     
  13. +Think about a crossover to a second amp and bandpass box plus your regular cabinet. I have used a small 2x10 bandpass for a small PA as well as my bass and bass drum. They are relatively small but hugely effective.

    Warwick makes a Jonas Hellborg BC 215 Coax 15 on top and 2x15 bandpass on bottom
    http://www.warwick.de/Hellborg/?katID=14497&cl=EN

    Below is a 2x18 beware they wreak havock with floor mics.

    http://www.hotbuyselectronics.com/item_detail.php?item_id=115285

    :bag:
     
  14. Yup and hear tiz A rotory Fan Drive sub
    http://www.rotarywoofer.com/howitworks.htm

    Also Bag end infra subs
    http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/05/23/bag-end-puts-more-power-behind-its-infrasubs/

    There were 2 huge ones located here in Indianapolis at the Madam CJ Walker. They were donated by Easwood theatre
    they were used once because they started to crack the building foundation. They are about $25,000 EACH NEW. Believe or not the current management most likely does not know they are even in the building. I was telling the manager about them and they said they had heard nothing about them. I told them to go down below the orchestra pit the response was "what orchestra pit?" I took them down and low and behold they had built a stage over the pit and there was an completed Klpsch 26,000 watt PA encluding the subs they did not know they had. The had even had a new PA installed.

    :bag:
     
  15. knuckle_head

    knuckle_head Commercial User

    Jul 30, 2002
    Seattle
    Owner; Knuckle Guitar Works & Circle K Strings
    Biggest best thing you can do is start from where you are. If you have a rig and have a bass dedicated to this purpose then see if what you have sounds good.

    If budget is a concern and your speakers aren't dealing with this very well there is a DIY cab being spoken about in this forum that can get honest frequency response down to nearly 40 Hz in the form of the fEarB. From all accounts the cab will cost less than $500 (likely closer to $400) and will out perform most cabs that are available commercially.

    If you aren't a DIYer the Acme and Avatar 2x10s are a reasonable next-best-bet. I suggest the 2x's because they will likely have better low end extension than their 4x brethren based on comparative internal cabinet volume. If you need more volume than a 2x will dole out then you can add a second 2x to your first. Acme even offers a sub version of their 2x and 4x (no mid driver or tweeter).

    I have a cab stack that I built myself as I needed something I could not afford. It isn't perfect but it gives me full spectrum from about 8K down to 19 Hz and I appreciate having the ability to hear that low - I have a 5 string tuned to 15 Hz B and it makes a difference to be able to hear what's going on below 40-45 Hz.
     
  16. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Gold Supporting Member

    Aug 25, 2007
    Toronto Ontario Canada
    Comparing an Avatar 2x10 to an Acme 2x10 is completely unfair to Avatar. They can't even come close.

    You tune your five string an octave below everyone else in the world? Where do you get your strings?

    Paul
     
  17. knuckle_head

    knuckle_head Commercial User

    Jul 30, 2002
    Seattle
    Owner; Knuckle Guitar Works & Circle K Strings
    Just suggestions - on spec they are fairly close in cab internal volume, though I have no notion how either of them is tuned and ported specifically nor how well either performs.

    Well, not everyone else in the world - Yves Carbonne is known for this tuning, Jauqo's C# is right there too, and there are quite a few others.

    I have used La Bellas in the past to get there, but I am using my own strings at present to do the deed.

    FWIW the La Bellas that Yves is using are in the .250 ballpark. Mine is a .265. This is the bass I have at present with the .265 on bottom;

    [​IMG]
     
  18. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Gold Supporting Member

    Aug 25, 2007
    Toronto Ontario Canada
    Good grief! You could tow a ship with that B! so do you make your own strings? I admit I do like a heavier gauge string. I'm using Elixr Mediums at the moment.

    Paul
     
  19. dhomer

    dhomer Commercial User

    Apr 9, 2009
    Hickory Corners, MI
    Owner, Gigmaster Soundworks, Auth. greenboy designs builder, MI
    If building is something you're not adverse to doing, here's an idea. Go to the Parts Express site, and get one of those Dayton Pro 18's. Might want to get 3 of the 4" adjustable flared ports while you're at it. Download WinISD and design an optimum vented cab for this driver. This is the sub in the pictures. -3db response is 27Hz, which is about as low as you're going to get. I also installed one of those Eminence 250Hz low-pass filters in the cab. As mentioned in an earlier post, a 30-35Hz subsonic filter in the amp circuit highly recommended. Sound levels much lower than 35Hz are only felt, not heard. Will only wreak havoc with every live mic in the basement..
     
  20. mat666

    mat666

    Apr 3, 2007
    montreal
    I used a maddison 8x10 + LMII my bass a 6 strings F# to G - the maddison handles the low freq very well even better than my PH1000 but it's really massive
     

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