amp modification

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by rolnaldo33, Oct 20, 2004.

  1. rolnaldo33


    Mar 24, 2004
    to make more power with my current amp would it work to wrap extra wire around the coil? im not exactly sure how it all works but i belive the coil is what actually makes the power so wouldn't more coil=more power?
  2. DubDubs


    Aug 23, 2004
    Los Angeles
    If you're into ruining your amp and/or dieing of electric shock go right ahed.

  3. Ah, that's it...why didn't the amp manufacturer think of that before? Just wrap some more wire around the "coil", gee that could get more power for free.....???????

    Dude I usually don't say things like this, but:

    Do you have a clue what you're talking about? :confused:
  4. rolnaldo33


    Mar 24, 2004
    hey hey, i figured it was a bad idea and just thought i'd ask, no need to get agressive, not like i was insulting you or anything
  5. rolnaldo33


    Mar 24, 2004
    and why is coil in quotes nashvillebill? i acutally do know what im talkin about, there is a "coil" in there
  6. Tim__x


    Aug 13, 2002
    Alberta, Canada
    He had good reason to put it in quotes, either this "coil" is some random inductor, or more likely, a toroidal transformer in which case it's a whole lot more than just a coil of wire.
  7. xyllion

    xyllion Commercial User

    Jan 14, 2003
    San Jose, CA, USA
    Owner, Looperlative Audio Products
    I will say this. I don't think that I have ever heard anyone ask this question before. As already stated, no, just adding wire won't make your amp more powerful. Transformers and inductors do not create power. Tubes and transistors channel power from the power supply to your speakers. Tranformers are used in tube amps on the output stage for impedance matching. Transformers are used in power supplies for isolation and voltage conversion.
  8. There are coils in transformers. And inductors have been referred to as coils....but there ain't no "coil" that you can wrap a wire around.

    If the amp is solid state, it may have one power transformer, designed to convert the wall voltage (either 120 Volts in the US or 220 volts elsewhere) to a lower voltage for rectification for the DC power supply rails. This DC voltage cannot be modified, it would exceed the transistor's ratings. When an amp manufacturer designs their amp, they match the power transformer to the DC power supply, usually they do a pretty good job of matching the transistor's rated voltage so it's doubtful any improvement could be gained there.

    Even if the transistors could be supplied with more voltage, you can't just wrap a wire around the power transfomer to provide the extra voltage. The transfomer is specifically designed and wound to provide a dedicated voltage ratio.

    If the amp is tube, there will be a power transformer, which can't be modified either. There will also be an output transformer. This transformer was designed and made with animpedance which matches the requirements of the power tubes. Deviation from this design impedance is generally not beneficial to the tubes...translation, the tubes will fry. Like the power transformer, the output transformer cannot be easily modified.

    The inductors are typically used in tone circuits, though there are several other applications in circuits (chokes in tube amp power supplies, for example). Crossovers in speakers also use inductors. The value of an inductor can be modified, but it wouldn't be in a very controlled way and almost certainly wouldn't be beneficial. If it's an air core inductor, for example, sticking an iron slug in it would drastically increase its inductance. Other characteristics of the inductor may worsen significantly. (Don't try doing this in a speaker crossover circuit, the value has been selected to match the needs of the speakers.) In any event, no power gains are to be had there either.

    Sorry if I was rude, but I'm an engineer and I constantly see machinery that's been ruined by people that messed with things they don't understand.
  9. notanaggie

    notanaggie Guest

    Sep 30, 2003
    Actually...........pretty much yes that would "work"......NOT that you can do it in reality.

    If the manufacturer decided to make a more powerful amp, probably yes, they would get quotes on a "coil" (transformer) with "more turns" on it.

    That is because more voltage allows more output voltage at same impedance = more power.

    Why can't you do it?

    1) because your transformer is 'full" already, no room at the inn for more wire.

    2) because the wire has to be a certain size, probably bigger than what is there....AND SO WOULD ALL THE WIRE ALREADY ON THE TRANSFORMER. You can't change that simply, so you are SOL again, especially because of no room....see #1.

    3) because the more voltage might be too much for other parts, as NVB pointed out.

    4) Because the designers also figured out how many tubes or transistors were needed to do the job of handling the power, and didn't put in much extra. When you need more power handling at your new higher voltage, you may come up short, and something goes "BOOM".

    5) Last but not least........The transformer is made to isolate you from the power line (mains). if you mess with it, without knowing how and what to do, you can mess up that isolation and create an amp that will electrocute in dead.

    Buy a bigger amp....or deal with what you have....much nicer, safer, and more fun for you. We'd hate to read about you in the paper.
  10. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    FWIW, wrapping a half mile of wire around your car's engine is a bad idea too.............. ;)
  11. After reading back through this thread, I do realize I was downright rude in my first response....sorry about that rolnaldo...

    The newcomer here may not realize how many times we see some very basic questions, and sometimes we see questions that seem pretty goofy. Although some of us old farts should be more tolerant, when I come home from a hard day it's sometimes a little too easy to get obnoxious. I suppose it would be more fair if we all recognize that "it's better to ask a stupid question than to sit in ignorant silence."

    Yet on the other hand, it is kinda fun to be an arrogant know-it-all pr*ck!!!! :D
  12. jondog


    Mar 14, 2002
    NYC metro area
    It's also better than electrocuting yourself!
  13. Larzito


    Aug 1, 2000
    Dallas, Texas
    Many years ago, some guy named Leo says to his friend as they watch the band and can't hear the bass player..."hey, you think I could make an ELECTRIC bass?" His friend, ever the nay sayer, says "shut up Leo and finish your think to much...eveybody knows you can't make an electric bass...who would buy it...why are you always trying to change things."

    I found it interesting how a lot of us reacted negatively to a simple pondering. Its "what if" thinking that leads to major innovations for our instrument and amplicication.
  14. Bob Lee (QSC)

    Bob Lee (QSC) In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio! Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jul 3, 2001
    Costa Mesa, Calif.
    Technical Communications Developer, QSC Audio
    There are wide ranges in "what if" thinking, though, ranging from the type done by Nobel laureates to that done by Darwin Award recipients. It's important to learn how the processes differ, and then encourage the former while discouraging the latter.
  15. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    yeah, youre right. history is full of "silly" ideas turning into life changing innovations. I still think the wire around the car engine is a bad idea though :p
  16. Jerrold Tiers

    Jerrold Tiers

    Nov 14, 2003
    St Louis
    I like #5, best reason for not doing that. It isn't safe to mess around with dangerous items that you do not (as Ronaldo admitted he does not) understand.

    Speaking for manufacturers, we hate the thought of people doing something like that. Sure as heck, some lawyer will find that we didn't specifically say anywhere not to disassemble the unit and wrap exactly 5 turns of wire around the whatchamajigger. That he will argue, makes it all our fault that the user who did that got electrocuted/burned/lost a finger/whatever.

    And people wonder why we don't even like to suggest what different fan might work in a unit.....we don't "authorize" ANY modifications by the user. We can't afford to.

    This thread, while I am not dumping on Ronaldo for asking, is a prime example of why we don't.

    In fact, I give Ronaldo an "A" for asking first.....better that than going in and trying it.
  17. Benjamin Strange

    Benjamin Strange Commercial User

    Dec 25, 2002
    New Orleans, LA
    Owner / Tech: Strange Guitarworks
    Or: "It's better to sit in silence and let every one assume you to be an idiot than to open your mouth and prove them right."
  18. K Dubbs

    K Dubbs Just graduated from OSU, Go Bucks!

    Mar 16, 2002
    Toledo, Ohio
    i once heard that wrapping a whole bunch of wire around your dingdong makes it more powerful. Somebody try that and let me know... ;)
  19. It just got moist and fluffy chocolate cake-y stuff all over. The frosting was barely disturbed.

    But on a Twinkie.... :cool:

    There's having an idea, and having an idea and the smarts to understand the idea, how to realistically go about it, and it's implications.