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amp power, EQ and strings.. achieve more lows w/o taxing amp?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by ::::BASSIST::::, May 18, 2005.


  1. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    If I am correct the wizzy is rated at 103db spl while the schroeder 1212 is 102db.

    I cant afford a new amp AND a new cab.

    I think I am going to go the two 112 cab approach. I am hopeful that two 12s run at 2 ohms / 300w should be enough for a medium sized venue.

    It would be a modular rig so it would be easier in terms of transportability when i only need 112.

    :)
     
  2. Passinwind

    Passinwind I know nothing. Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    Be sure that your second cab has a similar sensitivity rating, or this will be a waste of your time. Anything rated much under 100dB 1 watt/1 meter isn't going to help much at all. Another Wizzy is probably your best bet IMO, given your size/weight preferences
     
  3. A second Wizzy is probably your best bet.
     
  4. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    That's a bummer. I was looking at getting an ampeg pb 112 which is rated at 93db spl.

    How exactly is this a bad idea?

    I was thinking that b/c the spl on the pb is lower i wouldnt get as much volume as i would with a more efficient cab, but i not sure why it would be a waste of time.
     
  5. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada

    The thing is I am not happy with the low-end my current wizzy puts out so i am not all that motivated to buy another one.

    its the old "its light and loud but not bassy"

    But maybe if i had two wizzys that low-end issue would be resolved?
     
  6. Because it's likely that your volume gain would be negligible, or at least not big enough to be worth what it will cost. 10 dB is a pretty big difference in efficiency.
     
  7. seanm

    seanm I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize!

    Feb 19, 2004
    Ottawa, Canada
    Because, all things being equal, it will get half the power. But it will not put out as much volume, so the setup will be quieter than just one speaker.

    The wizzy is a very efficient cab. If it is not loud enough, you have to match it with another efficient cab.
     
  8. Passinwind

    Passinwind I know nothing. Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    If you add sound pressure levels from a 102dB cab and a 93dB one, assuming they each are receiving 1 watt, you'll get a combined level of 102.5dB, not counting whatever coupling effects may come into play. Coupling gets tricky to quantify when you have such dissimilar levels, but I think it'll be considerably less than the standard 3dB you get with identical drivers. If you combine two Wizzys, you might expect to see around 108dB total SPL at 1 watt input per speaker. I'm shooting from the hip here, so corrections are especially welcome.

    When you're looking at the maximum possible output, it gets even more complicated, but since the Wizzy will now see less power with a second cab in the mix (150 watts vs. the 200 it was previously getting), you're maybe shooting yourself in the foot by going with the PB cab. If you can't realize at least a 6dB sound pressure level increase, it probably won't be enough to satisfy you, I'd guess. I'm not so sure you'd hear any meaningful improvement at all from the PB. I still think you ought to demo a Focus or another compact head before you invest in another cab. If you can, try Smash's Thunderfunk, that might work well for you.
     
  9. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    well, glad i didnt make that bid on ebay then!

    damn! this stuff never ends!

    if i got two wizzys, plus the rest of the rig it would be too heavy at 70 lbs.

    now i dont know what to do.

    perhaps i will ask jorg if he will make a 2ohm cab for me.
     
  10. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    yes, i am going to do more experimenting before i buy anything.

    if i use a more powerful amp say 400w at 4ohms would that be too much for the wizzy which is rated at 200w (well, their website says 250 but the back of the cab says 200)?
     
  11. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    i emailed Jorg earlier today and this is his response:

    thank you very much for your email. The 1212 is a 4 ohm cabinet and does NOT have 2 separate inputs
    for each driver; therefore, you would be powering with your Clarus @ 4 ohm, but don't despair;
    I have a few Clarus owner who use a 1210 or 1212 and all of them say that it's loud enough.

    maybe i should buy the 1212 and then later when i have more cash buy a more powerful amp...
     
  12. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD Supporting Member

    Feb 20, 2005
    Syracuse NY
    Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
    Just a quick comment.

    There's some misinformation floating about.

    The 1212 is NOT only a 4ohm cab.


    Mine is an 8ohm 1212.


    As far as I know it wasn't a special order, in fact, the shipping turn around was less than 24 hours from payment.
     
  13. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Jorg says the clarus and the 1212 will be loud enough. I trust his expertise. My only concern is that it would be loud enough for up to and including a medium size venue.
     
  14. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD Supporting Member

    Feb 20, 2005
    Syracuse NY
    Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
    I'm using my 1212 alone with a Mesa 400+.

    I've played a mid sized club without problem, and didn't push the volume that hard...because of the pronounced mid it's easier to hear with less volume.
     
  15. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    there will come a time when you hit a "volume plateau" which will be dictated by how much stuff you can push around on that stroller. hopefully it sounds like you may have an adequate setup.
     
  16. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    yup. 60lbs on the stroller is the limit i will push. i know that limits my rig. however, the 1212 is 48lbs and if i eventually i get the AI Focus, which does 600w at 4ohms, that would be ideal with lots of volume and only about 53lbs for the entire rig minus cables etc.
     
  17. Passinwind

    Passinwind I know nothing. Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    You're right, and that info is now on the Schroeder website. That wouldn't be a bonus for Torin though.
     
  18. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD Supporting Member

    Feb 20, 2005
    Syracuse NY
    Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
    Nope. But it did come up earlier in the thread, and things around here spread fast, so the more good info the better. :)

    As far as I know, the 1210 is still only in 4ohm configuration.
     
  19. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Yeah, the stroller is... well its a stroller. I cover it in a big green rain coat so nobody can see what i have. But with the bass guitar strapped on my back they can probably figure it out. Today I went to my Father's to jam and I took the entire rig today for the first time on the bus. Worked pretty well. However, it was only a single wizzy and the clarus and a few other miscellaneous items so the total was not more than 40LBS. With the 1212 i wont be as mobile. That's unfortunate, but i guess it cant be avoided to get a decent sound with volume.

    I think my rig sounded better when I eliminated the Fishman pro platinum. Weird. I thought it would help, but the clarus sounded better without it.

    I played a cd thru the rig to see if the lows would distort the cab and they didnt. The wizzy just isnt bassy enough with bass guitar imo. After I check out Smash's 1212, which he has so graciously allowed me to do, i will make my final decision if i will buy one. Currently, it looks like thats what i am going to do. Then later on buy a more powerful amp if necessary.

    Smash, i would be very interested to see your Ruxxac cart. I recently upgraded to a new stroller and it made a big difference. I imagine that a more efficient cart would make things even easier.

    Good point about the variables involved in a medium venue situation. As long as the 1212 will perform well, I am not going to over analyze it all.

    If i had to rely on renting equipment or getting rides for gigs I wouldnt be happy. I like to be self-reliant and self-contained. If we were playing outdoors for a very special event or something like that I would consider otherwise.

    As far as our instrumentation...my guitar player plays a Marshal tube amp, not sure of the model but everyone who sees it salivates. Its one of the older models with alot of juice. Not really an issue though as we are actually often asking him to turn it up. Very rare I know, but he's not your typical guitarist. The only other instrument is the drum kit. He is not excessively loud either. We are also looking for a keyboardist. (If anyone knows of any in Vancouver let me know!)

    So far we have only played one gig at a rec centre in a small gym with wooden floors, ceiling and walls. It was a pretty good venue actually. My goal is to start playing alot more gigs and i can see ourselves playing in medium size venues at some point.(First we need to add a fourth member to fill out our sound and add backup vocals). I also just want my gear to be up to the task for whatever may come my way in the future.
     
  20. seanm

    seanm I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize!

    Feb 19, 2004
    Ottawa, Canada
    Sorry but you are not allowed to do that! Trios are very Canadian, eh? ;)
     

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