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Amp Power to Speaker Wattage Ratio Techs help me...

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Mike, Nov 6, 2002.


  1. Mike

    Mike

    Sep 7, 2000
    Cali
    Hey,

    I have an Eden WT 300 I run at a 4 ohm load with an Eden 210T (rated at 250 watts) and a Nemesis 15 rated at 200 watts. The amp, even at moderate, but loud enough to play with a band, volume seems to push these speakers hard and all too often wil cause the speakers to bog or fart out. I'm running the gain at the 12 o'clock position and the volume at 12 also. I play a Status bass mainly on which I have the master volume up about 75% of the way. When it happens I turn down the volume and lighten up my attack and it appears to be ok then but not quite loud enough.

    My question is, if the amp can ultimately produce 300 watts should my speakers be able to handle at least twice that wattage in order to be pushed to an appropriate volume? Or, should the speakers be deisgned to handle even more power, say 800 watts or more? I don't think the 150 watts of head room the speakers provide is enough. Am I on to something here or am I babbling my ass off?


    Thanks,

    Mike
     
  2. I can't be sure but it sounds like you are running out of power. Volume and balance often hard to achieve especially when you are working with guitar players. It always seemed that when I thought I was just loud enough, everyone else thought I was too loud. Even people listening out front. It stands to reason that when you turn down just a little you think you arn't quite loud enough. Your ears got use to the louder volume (like driving 90 mph ) so that when you turned down a little (slowed down to 70) you feel as though the bottom has dropped out of the sound. 1x15 2x10 + horn and 300 watts should be plenty. Try to get the others to turn down a little as well. Maybe you can all save some of your hearing for your old age. :D
     
  3. Richard Lindsey

    Richard Lindsey

    Mar 25, 2000
    Metro NYC
    This has come up a lot; you might wanna do a search.

    My guess, though, is that the problem is just as likely to be clipping from your amp.
     
  4. Mike

    Mike

    Sep 7, 2000
    Cali
    You have some good pointers but my question was directed more toward whether or not my speakers should have more headroom in order to handle the wattage produced from the amp. I really don't play that loudly, the speakers just don't seem to be able to handle the frequencies at moderate volumes. What Gives? I think the spks just can't handle the low end at the wattage they're rated at...
     
  5. I think what both of myself and RL are try to say is that we don't think what you are hearing is a speaker problem but an amp clipping problem. The "Farting" sound you are hearing is usually the sound a solid state device clips and not the fault of the speaker. Like both of us have said though, we can only guess.
     
  6. Mike

    Mike

    Sep 7, 2000
    Cali
    I'm with ya. My upload is slow sometimes... So, I just trim the gain back or the overall volume?
     
  7. Paleale - Please see my thread, in the "Amps" forum, on this subject. There is a link that will answer some of your questions.

    :)

    B
     
  8. There are two possibilities here or maybe a combination of both. It could be that you're simply running out of power and clipping the amp as the previous posters have stated. However, I also use the D210-T and while it's a great cab, it won't take a lot of bass. I use my 210-T as the top cab in a bi-amped system, a job it's perfect for. I run it with 550 watts and I've never had it fart out on me even at extreme volume levels because it's getting nothing below 180hz. I've used the cab by itself for smaller venues and found that it poops out pretty early when you really put the bass to it.

    You're also using a single 15" cab. I've never been real impressed with the performance of single 15's at moderate to high volume levels. They simply don't move enough air to fill a room with deep bass and they start farting out in the attempt.

    If you're using EQ settings with scooped mids it'll drive your cabs crazy. The 2x10 simply can't handle it and the 1x15 can't do it loud.

    It could be that you're asking too much of your speakers. I used to bring my Eden cab to practice to use with a Carvin 1x15 the drummer had at his house. The Carvin would crap out way before the Eden even got warmed up because it couldn't produce as much bass as I was asking it too. If both of your cabs start crapping out at the same time, that would indicate to me that you're running out of power from the amp. If one cab starts to fart out before the other, then I think you're putting too much bass to them.
     
  9. Mike

    Mike

    Sep 7, 2000
    Cali
    I think the problem may be the 210T and the bass frequencies. My mids are mostly flat and the bass is at about 1 o'clock when the 210T begins to flutter. When I trimmed the bass back to 12 o'clock the break up disappeared but my sound was thin. So, I turned down the volume, put the bass back and life was good. As you had mentioned, the 210T probably just can't handle a lot of low end. I have a 95 model WT 300 before the active/passive db cut or boost. This is probably only aggravating the situation. I'll just control my volume and may pich up another 2x10 and sell the 15.

    Thanks for all the input.
     
  10. Yea, are the farting in unison?
    (sorry, just couldn't resist)
     
  11. Yes, this could be bad because of what's known as fart coupling. Speakers farting in unison increase the phraaaaaaaapp factor by +3db.
     
  12. Mike

    Mike

    Sep 7, 2000
    Cali
    Addendum:

    I should have specified earlier. It is just the Eden 210T. So, it has to be a frequency problem (ie too much bass.) Maybe I need a cab that can handle the bass or a crossover to biamp. Tone is such a pain in the ass...;)