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Ampeg 410HE + 210HE. Bad idea?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by BassmanAd, Sep 17, 2010.


  1. BassmanAd

    BassmanAd

    Mar 19, 2008
    UK
    I'm currently rockin' an SVT 3 Pro through a 410HE but I have a chance to pick up an old 210HE fairly cheap, so I can run with a 6x10 setup. Is it a good idea to pair these two cabs together?

    They're both 8 Ohm cabs, the 410HE handles 500W and the 210HE handles 200W. Im guessing the running at 4 Ohms the amp will send 250W to the 210HE. Is this going to kill the little cab?

    Thanks all...
     
    rickwebb likes this.
  2. Should be just fine. I don't like tweeters, so I'd turn at least one down in this cab config.
    Currently I'm using single '15E with 3pro and it's doing great. No problems at all.
     
  3. Devo-lution

    Devo-lution

    Jun 24, 2009
    If you turn it up bigtime... the little cab will suffer.

    Also mind that you will not get a true 610 effect, as the 210 will receive twice the watt per speaker. Might make for some volume inbalances as JimmyM pointed out to me recently.
     
  4. BassmanAd

    BassmanAd

    Mar 19, 2008
    UK
    This is what I was worried about...

    To be honest even with just the 4x10 and my 3 Pro running at 8 Ohms I never find myself wanting more volume. The only times I find myself getting a bit lost is bigger stages so I figured a couple more speakers running the amp down to 4 Ohms would give me a bit more kick.

    What was JimmyM's take on it?
     
  5. gricko

    gricko

    Mar 29, 2004
    get 210, sell both and buy 610? ;)
     
  6. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    That's a problem. The 210 and 410 will get the same power. To successfully run a 210 and 410 the 410 impedance should be half that of the 210.
     
  7. BassmanAd

    BassmanAd

    Mar 19, 2008
    UK
    This is an option that I hadn't previously thought of... :)
     
  8. BassmanAd

    BassmanAd

    Mar 19, 2008
    UK
    Hmmm... I had a feeling something like this would come up. I guessed it might be something like the old 4x10 + 1x15 debate.

    Like I said before, I wouldn't be really cranking the volume or anything. Would it cause any damage to either the cabs or my amp?
     
  9. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    You won't be able to get full output from the 410 without toasting the 210. If you're not really cranking the volume why do you need more than a 410?
     
  10. Devo-lution

    Devo-lution

    Jun 24, 2009
    I am going to do the same... but I'll buy a 8 ohm 210 and a 4 ohm 410.... (you'll get an impedance of 2.67, so you'll need an amp that can run at 2 ohm safely)

    for example: If you have 1000 watt while doing it like that...

    - 333.3333333 watt goes to the 210
    - 666.6666667 watt goes to the 410

    Each speaker gets equal watt...

    JimmyM just told me that I might get a volume imbalance if the ohm value of both the 410 and the 210 was the same. He also said that he didn't know if that would be a great problem or not.
     
  11. AlexanderB

    AlexanderB

    Feb 25, 2007
    Sweden
    "To successfully run a 210 and 410 the 410 impedance should be half that of the 210."

    Well, these cabs have very little in common, aside from the logo, tolex and piping. The 210 is vented and uses a sturdier woofer type than you will find in the sealed 410. It might work fine, from a power handling / compression POV. However, these two cabs have different group delay in the lower bass, so there might be some cancellation effects in the lows. Try it and see if it works!

    /Alexander
     
  12. I Forget

    I Forget

    Apr 16, 2010
    For what it's worth (probably not much) I think the 410hlf and the 210he sound great together. Much better than either one on it's own. The hlf is 4 ohms too.
     
  13. BassmanAd

    BassmanAd

    Mar 19, 2008
    UK
    I mostly play on smallish stages doing what I do (garage rock / punk) so the 4x10 manages fine for those. When I go on bigger stages though I sometimes don't get the kick I want from it. I just figured that an extra cab to take the amp down to 4 Ohms would give me that extra push.

    I don't know much about amps so I thought it would be ok to throw a half decent 8 Ohm cab into the mix to help me out.

    I'd never really crank the amp, I normally play with the gain set at 9 o'clock and the master volume at 3 o'clock.
     
  14. I'm doing this with SWR cabinets and my 2-Pro. Both are 4 ohm (2 ohm total) and it sounds pretty good. I can get ths setup pretty friggin loud and thumpin', and at those volumes, if the 2x10 is coming in slightly louder than the 4x10, you really can't notice.

    P1020251.gif

    But sometimes I feel like I just want to get another 4x10 instead...but that means another giant box.
     
  15. I Forget

    I Forget

    Apr 16, 2010
    It's true the power distribution per driver is not ideal. But I don't think it's going to be a problem. The 3pro puts out 275w into 8ohms and 450w into four. So with both cabs your 410 will see pretty much the same amount of power it sees now and 225w is almost exactly what the 210he is rated for.

    It will definitely be quite a lot louder than what you are running now and you may well like the way it sounds. If it's cheap I'd just grab it and give it a run.
     
  16. BassmanAd

    BassmanAd

    Mar 19, 2008
    UK
    Pretty much what I wanted to hear. :)

    Fingers crossed I bag this bad boy then I'll give it a shot and see how it goes...
     
  17. slick_tu

    slick_tu

    Sep 19, 2006
    South Jersey
    FWIW the 410HE is a sealed cab and the 210HE is a ported cab.
     
  18. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Taking the amp down to 4 ohms does doodly squat. If one 4x10 isn't enough add a second identical 4x10.
     
  19. I want to resurrect this. Maybe I should start a new post, but the subject is these same two cabs.

    I've had a SVT210HE since about 2001 (bought new). I was running this with another 4x10 cab - though a Yorkville - with a Trace Eliot AHSMX600, so no issues with impedance or dist of power, as the amp is works in bi-amp mode. Regardless the fact that both cabs were 8ohms, the amp could handle a 2ohm load. (I figure, never really been that tech savvy, but anyway.)

    Had trouble with the Trace and got a Mesa M9, but both amps are still operational, so, still got em. I wanted to go all Ampeg and got an SVT18, which means my rig sounds incredible now.

    However, I can't haul the 18 in my car any way. The 410HE would fit in my trunk. I could haul my whole rig with just my car again. The HLF is too wide and deep to go in the boot, too.

    I guess the question is: the 210 can push 35Hz....would it be stupid to try to get my low end out of the 210 and slap the 410 on top running them either stereo with the Trace, or with both the Trace and Mesa? (I like to split my signal so I can run distortion and clean simultaneous.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2015
  20. AlexanderB

    AlexanderB

    Feb 25, 2007
    Sweden
    My SVT-210HE will take everything my LMII can throw at it without a hiccup (at least with my four string basses, and a bit of low boost). So around 300 Watts should easily be OK.
    The 210 does not sound like the 410HE, as it uses the transducers from the 410HLF. So, the low end is different due to the different group delays for sealed vs vented box, and the mids are not the same as the transducers are fairly different between 210HE and 410HE. If the 210HE is lacking something tonally, it is mainly in the upper mids, where the 10" Ampeg speakers from that era sound rolled off and "veiled" in the higher range. If you play a Precision with flats or old rounds, you may never notice. For my Jazz bass, I prefer a more detailed speaker.
     
  21. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
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