Ampeg SVT Classic VS SVT 3Pro For Full Clear Low End

[Analogman88]

Hi All,

Since I'm new to bass I wanted to get some advice from some true bass players. I have played guitar in bands for years and have heard many different bass rigs. I went and saw Petra play live a few months ago, and the bass tone that Greg Bailey had absolutely blew my mind. I've seen Metallica live and not even their bass tone came close. I'm sure the PA system played a large part, but never have I heard such low 5 string notes (below 'B' tuning) ring through so clearly! The low end was so full without being muddy at all...full low end with pitch perfect clarity of the note. So many times those low notes are hit and you feel it but you don't hear the pitch of the note very well; it gets muddy. Not this guy's rig. He was playing through an Ampeg SVT-350H, a solid state head into a Hartke cab with 10" aluminum cones.

The closest thing to that that's currently made is an Ampeg SVT-3pro. I was going to get one, assuming that the solid state power section played a role in the fullness of the low end I heard. The more I read, the more I hear talk of how the SVT Classic is really the ultimate for great bass tone. My concern is: Will the SVT Classic deliver the low end with such fullness and pitch clarity as that SVT-350H I heard? The SVT Classic has a tube power section and has an older design that pre-dates music styles where bassists were playing B and below. Does either the Classic or the 3Pro deliver those super low notes with more full low end and pitch clarity than the other? Money or volume is not my main concern here, just tone and low end delivery. Any advice greatly appreciated!

 

[bobyoung53]

Hi All,

Since I'm new to bass I wanted to get some advice from some true bass players. I have played guitar in bands for years and have heard many different bass rigs. I went and saw Petra play live a few months ago, and the bass tone that Greg Bailey had absolutely blew my mind. I've seen Metallica live and not even their bass tone came close. I'm sure the PA system played a large part, but never have I heard such low 5 string notes (below 'B' tuning) ring through so clearly! The low end was so full without being muddy at all...full low end with pitch perfect clarity of the note. So many times those low notes are hit and you feel it but you don't hear the pitch of the note very well; it gets muddy. Not this guy's rig. He was playing through an Ampeg SVT-350H, a solid state head into a Hartke cab with 10" aluminum cones.

The closest thing to that that's currently made is an Ampeg SVT-3pro. I was going to get one, assuming that the solid state power section played a role in the fullness of the low end I heard. The more I read, the more I hear talk of how the SVT Classic is really the ultimate for great bass tone. My concern is: Will the SVT Classic deliver the low end with such fullness and pitch clarity as that SVT-350H I heard? The SVT Classic has a tube power section and has an older design that pre-dates music styles where bassists were playing B and below. Does either the Classic or the 3Pro deliver those super low notes with more full low end and pitch clarity than the other? Money or volume is not my main concern here, just tone and low end delivery. Any advice greatly appreciated!

I've been using SVT's for years and like low end and have never thought I needed another amp for more low end, in fact compared to most SS heads I've tried the SVT is bottom city if you want it, clear and punchy. I have heard good things about the SVT-4 pro and have tried them and they sound good. I like class a/b amps the best.

 

[Gearhead17]

First off, don't pay much attention to the rig he used on stage. You very likely heard the PA and not an OUNCE of the stage rig. Do you know his signal path from the stage to the sound engineer? He was very likely plugging into several other pieces of gear like: DI boxes, a bass preamp, an amp simulator or something else. Or heck, maybe the sound engineer is someone the band hired and that's why it sounded so good. There are too many variables here.

For great low end reproduction, I don't suggest going for a tube amp. At a high enough volume, the tube amp will start to overdrive/distort and start rolling off some of the low end. That's the magic of a tube amp. Still sounds amazing!

The 350H is the cousin of the B2R from Ampeg. Both heads have a cold and very unique take on the Ampeg sound. I owned the B2R - there was no warmth to it. It had clarity, but I suggest avoiding that head. You are better off focusing on a head with 800 watts of solid state power (no tube power section) and a REALLY good cabinet. If you skimp on the cabinet, you will be disappointed.

What are your goals with the bass rig? Play in your house? Jam with friends? Regularly gig?

 

[Analogman88]

Oh great responses and insight!

So you both seem to think that a solid state Ampeg would be better than the Classic for that great full low end...so maybe a 3Pro or 4Pro for that pitch clarity without muddiness?

Gearhead17, my goals are mostly for recording. When my band records, we do it at my house bc there's no one for miles to call the cops on us for being too loud. Sometimes my drummer comes over to just jam for fun and sometimes I play by myself for fun and I'm wanting a great sounding bass track when I record backing tracks for a song I'll play at church (usually the less heavy songs I write). So for those applications, volume is not an issue where tone at any volume is the main concern. The other application is when my band has a fill in bass player for a small gig, it would be nice to have a bass rig that doesn't have to be at a deafening volume to sound good which is why I was thinking a 3Pro rather than 4Pro.

So if I go with a solid state head, maybe it doesn't have to be cranked to get into a sweet spot like my tube guitar amps do? If you're suggesting that a 4Pro is better for the specifications I described in the OP...Also, are you suggesting that a Hartke cab with aluminum cones isn't the best route to go for the cabinet?

 

[Treblefree]

Money or volume is not my main concern here, just tone and low end delivery.

What a beautiful statement. This should be in your tag.

Personally, I'm surprised about the Hartke cab. I am selling one right now because i find it higher pitched. Maybe it's helping give him clarity, but i have SVT7Pro and have an 810e cab and just bought a 410HLF cab. I find the HLF to produce deeper sound than my 810 if that's possible. Just an observation to my ears. My Hartke speakers wouldn't even come close with the same 4 basses and same head for what you're asking.

 

[bobyoung53]

Oh great responses and insight!

So you both seem to think that a solid state Ampeg would be better than the Classic for that great full low end...so maybe a 3Pro or 4Pro for that pitch clarity without muddiness?

Gearhead17, my goals are mostly for recording. When my band records, we do it at my house bc there's no one for miles to call the cops on us for being too loud. Sometimes my drummer comes over to just jam for fun and sometimes I play by myself for fun and I'm wanting a great sounding bass track when I record backing tracks for a song I'll play at church (usually the less heavy songs I write). So for those applications, volume is not an issue where tone at any volume is the main concern. The other application is when my band has a fill in bass player for a small gig, it would be nice to have a bass rig that doesn't have to be at a deafening volume to sound good which is why I was thinking a 3Pro rather than 4Pro.

So if I go with a solid state head, maybe it doesn't have to be cranked to get into a sweet spot like my tube guitar amps do? If you're suggesting that a 4Pro is better for the specifications I described in the OP...Also, are you suggesting that a Hartke cab with aluminum cones isn't the best route to go for the cabinet?

No, I think you'd be better off with the SVT tube head unless your band is crazy loud. I've played some very large places with SVT's, usually with two cabs though but they sound great and have plenty of bottom.

 

[bobyoung53]

What a beautiful statement. This should be in your tag.

Personally, I'm surprised about the Hartke cab. I am selling one right now because i find it higher pitched. Maybe it's helping give him clarity, but i have SVT7Pro and have an 810e cab and just bought a 410HLF cab. I find the HLF to produce deeper sound than my 810 if that's possible. Just an observation to my ears. My Hartke speakers wouldn't even come close with the same 4 basses and same head for what you're asking.

810 SVT cabs cut off down low, I have an old Ampeg PR-410HLF and it has tons of bottom, weighs a ton though but they can be had for cheap money nowadays..

Ampeg: Pro Series - PR-410HLF

 

[Jim C]

What cabinet(s). This will make a big difference with this comparison.
The SVT Classic is only 300 watts; it's not going to get all that loud, low, and clear with a small or inefficient cabinet but they sound awesome.
If you like the sound of an SVT cabinet you're done.

I never cared for my 3-pro or my 7-Pro but they have way more power.

 

[Analogman88]

No, I think you'd be better off with the SVT tube head unless your band is crazy loud. I've played some very large places with SVT's, usually with two cabs though but they sound great and have plenty of bottom.

At most of our venues we're not really that loud, even most of our outside youth events I usually have my 100W Plexi replica attenuated one notch if that helps give an idea.

So now I'm getting a tug towards the SVT Classic...I don't feel the need to try and recreate Greg Bailey's exact rig since most of what I was hearing was most likely predominantly from the PA. I just know that sound was the best bass tone I've ever heard. Any suggestions for an Ampeg head with what cabinet? Maybe a combo of a couple Hartke aluminum cones for the clarity with some other speaker(s) for that powerful low end delivery I heard? And for the head, I don't know now if I should go Classic or 3Pro or 4Pro...from the head I decide on, I can get speakers to match in terms of wattage.

 

[bobyoung53]

If you can find one of these: Ampeg PR-410HLF although they weigh a ton they go down to something like 29Hz, they're 4 ohm cabs so compatible with an SVT head and they're pretty efficient so that's what I'd recommend or even a regular Ampeg 410HLF has plenty of bottom as long as it's a 4 ohm cab. I use that cab and a 70's SVT all tube head when i play blues and I can only just crack the volume control. An SVT classic is a pretty loud head especially through an efficient cab which both the HLF and the PR-HLF are, just make sure you get a 4 ohm cab with them. The PR-410HFL also has a tweeter, they're not real easy to find though but as I said they're pretty cheap nowadays, I think I paid 350.00 for mine a few years ago. I know a lot of people think this is BS but tube heads have more presence than a comparable SS head so they sound louder watt for watt.

Ampeg: Pro Series - PR-410HLF

 

[Evanforbass]

If you want volume and amazing tone and low end and want to just enjoy your amp, a SVT Classic or VR will not disappoint. There’s no replacement for that 6550 tube glory.

I would advise going with another cab than an Ampeg 810- they don’t have voluminous low end but seem more midrange focused to me. I play a SVT VR through a Aguilar 412 and it’s awesome. There will be many good recs on cabs. Enjoy an SVT while you can, great solid state heads will always be there when you don’t want to carry it or don’t need the volume

 

[Wasnex]

It depend a lot on what you mean by full low end. Most people think the SVT and 810 is a pretty fat sounding rig, but it actually does not have extended low frequency response.

I believe the 810 starts rolling off just above 60hz, and the preamp starts rolling off around 50hz. Per Ampeg the 810E is -3dB at 58hz and -10 at 40hz. Here's a graph of the preamp frequency response for a vintage SVT. A CL should be fairly close. SVT_CH1_FLAT

The power amp also has som roll off below 100hz. SVT_PWR_AMP

Keep in mind the graphs use 10dB per unit division, so the roll off does not look as steep as it is. Also you need to consider the cumulative rolloff of the cab, preamp, and power amp together.

IMHO this rig was not designed to produce high SPL sub bass, but luckily our perception of fatness comes mostly from frequencies between about 75 and 125hz.

I actually like SVTs quite a bit. I don't care for 810Es. I like cabs with more of a full range flat response. No amount of EQ can give an 810E the high frequency response I like. This is the part I like least about this cab. I do think the cabs sounds pretty fat down low, but my observation is that when you play an open E and the E an octave higher, the two notes are not as distinct as I like. In other words, the two notes sound too much alike. The cab does take low frequency EQ well though, and in my experience a boost at 40hz and a dip at 80hz can clear up the low notes quite a bit, at the expense of headroom.

 

[Gearhead17]

Hartke 410 - I used to own one (not the TP series) and I found it was decent, but I always felt there were better options out there. I don't suggest you track one down.

SVT 4 PRO - warm tube preamp, lots of power, lots of low end oomph
SVT 3 PRO - Can do light tube growl, good low end on it, but only 450 watts. Through the right cabinet and running the controls a certain way, it can get plenty loud.

My current rig is a Fearless 212 and Mesa D800. Clarity, mids, lows, nothing is lacking here. The volume is ridiculous too!

 

[BBQV]

If you want low end for recording i suggest an SVT-7 pro. I've recorded straight to the board through the DI with it and it sounds glorious!

 

[Alexander]

I love Ampeg tube amps, specifically the SVT and V4B. But I have not yet found a SS/Hybrid Ampeg that I’ve loved and was particularly underwhelmed by the 3Pro. The ones I’ve played have been various shades of “okay”. There are amps by other manufacturers that smoke them, IMO.

BTW - I can’t claim to have tried EVERY SS/Hybrid Ampeg makes - just most of their combos, the 3Pro, 7Pro and PF series heads.

 

[drumvsbass]

What cabinet(s). This will make a big difference with this comparison.
The SVT Classic is only 300 watts; it's not going to get all that loud, low, and clear with a small or inefficient cabinet but they sound awesome.
If you like the sound of an SVT cabinet you're done.

I never cared for my 3-pro or my 7-Pro but they have way more power.

3pro and 7pro have more power than a 300 watt SVT tube amp?
I'll take that bet any day. On what planet?

 

[Jim C]

3pro and 7pro have more power than a 300 watt SVT tube amp?
I'll take that bet any day. On what planet?

Any you would loose every day.
A SVT will produce 300 Watts RMS / 3% distortion / into 4 Ohms

 

[johnpbass]

Contrary to popular belief, the SVT was designed to deliver a large amount of clean power. As others have said, with some of those cabinet suggestions above, you should be able to get the lows you're looking for.

 

[InhumanResource]

Contrary to popular belief, the SVT was designed to deliver a large amount of clean power. As others have said, with some of those cabinet suggestions above, you should be able to get the lows you're looking for.

This is what needed to be said, the cabinet is really where the rubber hits the road. Frankly, the PA system too in case OP's bass hero was sending something to the subs.

All the amplifiers mentioned should perform fine and many of them are VERY similar. Going to have to address the speaker configuration and whether subwoofers and/or additional processing are needed to recreate the sound.

 

[brianrost]

As noted above by others, what you heard at the Petra show was the bass in the PA and not his stage rig.

I recall that the SVT-3 Pro and the SVT-350H were the same amp in different enclosures.

I haven't heard any recent Hartke HyDrive cabinets, but their old US built 410XL was a nice sounding and rugged cab. I played a lot of festival gigs over the years with those cabs provided (usually with a GK head). They were a touring staple for many years.

How close that will come to what you heard at the show? Who knows.